tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-71282671388049787732024-03-04T23:07:19.931-08:00Light Bearer's realmThis is the realm of enlightenment, where light is brought into darkness to illuminate the path of the truth searcher.
Ordo Rosaecrux magnum equilibrium.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-7600624155860931972012-04-14T10:20:00.002-07:002012-04-14T11:24:35.486-07:00Farzan Ahmed - Muslim Nazi employed by Calderdale Council<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 100%; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">Hat tip: Jewish Defence League UK </span><br />
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Farzan Ahmed - Calderdale council Nazi Jew hater Muslim scum</h3>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">EDL News is on a server that belongs to a Muslim who </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">is linked to several personalities including the nasty </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">weasel Robin Tuddenham from Calderdale council.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The Chair of the local BME (Black, Minority, Ethnic) Network </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">in Calderdale - who also sits on the police race hate scrutiny </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">panels and the Equality Forum in Calderdale (which Forum is </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">administered by officers of the Council under Robin Tuddenham)</span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">is a Muslim called Farzan Ahmed.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Mr Ahmed has an interesting profile which may be viewed athttp://uk.linkedin.com/pub/farzan-ahmed/18/69b/973. </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">You will see that he makes repeated issue of his having </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">assisted the authorities in dealing with the "far right, extremist" </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">EDL demo in Halifax.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">If you check his Facebook out - </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">https://www.facebook.com/xcelgroup </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">you will see many activities and interests listed - </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">not least amongst </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">which are 'British Muslims Against Zionism' - </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">'Muslim Defence League' - 'Palestine Defence League' - </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">'Stop Killing Children of Palestine' and 'Free Palestine'. </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">These are truly hate-mongering Facebook pages.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Now ...if you check 'Free Palestine' out on Facebook you will see </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">not just the usual anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist crap expressed but </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">also blatantly anti-Jewish sentiment and if you click on the advertised </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">web-site in the information section of 'Free Palestine' - </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/ this takes you to a hard-core </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">rabidly anti-Jewish, openly Islamist and Hamas supporting web-site.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Mr Ahmed is a colleague of Sail Suleman's on the Race/Faith Hate </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Scrutiny Panels and has direct e-mail and other agency networking </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">links with him.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">So there we have it:</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Farzan Ahmed, the Chair of the BME Network, sits on a policy</span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> Forum administered by Robin Tuddenham, has close links with </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Sail Suleman and Calderdale Muslim councillors and publicly </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">expresses his like of anti-Zionist Facebook pages - at least one </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">of which directly links to a hard-core Islamist and anti-Jewish </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Hamas supporting website.( I have not checked the links on the </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">other 200 plus pages).</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">He also runs quite a few web-sites himself including a religious </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">website - http://www.dawah.org.uk/</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">As I see it Calderdale Council and its agencies have become </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">thoroughly infiltrated by anti-Zionist and Islamist elements and </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">this is why anti-semitic films, child exploitation and fund-raising </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">events of late have been allowed to be promoted and hosted using </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">public monies.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Calderdale Council and other such local agencies are happy to</span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">facilitate anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish propaganda because it </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">already engages with, respectabilises and allows itself to be </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">advised by such people as openly flaunt - no doubt in mentoring </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">to others - their interest in virulently Islamist and rabidly </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">anti-Jewish websites.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">These Muslim Nazis are linked to the EXPOSE group and Calderdale </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">council and its employees have once again been exposed </span><br />
<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">as the Jew hating vermin that they are.</span></div>
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<span class="text_exposed_show" style="background-color: #edeff4; color: #333333; display: inline; line-height: 14px; text-align: left;">See the rest of the article here:</span></div>
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<span class="text_exposed_show" style="background-color: #edeff4; color: #333333; display: inline; line-height: 14px; text-align: left;"><a href="http://jdl-uk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/farzan-ahmed-calderdale-council-nazi.html">http://jdl-uk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/farzan-ahmed-calderdale-council-nazi.html</a> </span></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-37313104938778277172011-02-02T11:01:00.000-08:002011-02-02T11:09:10.718-08:00FREE JONATHAN POLLARD NOW!<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIxzfdkCKCWz-ZJFfYEqLkVsFNPMSwpBQI9ZQhW7yjKUbr5-FAO0ivAzj5JE0s_bo3Sfs2qKZMylGToIXmo0xX4I6kuz6-38H7qwtK9Qn-FqCw27RRkAnoO44r7tX8eCV3ut3Mo-W8j18-/s1600/Jonathan-Pollard.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 278px; height: 200px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIxzfdkCKCWz-ZJFfYEqLkVsFNPMSwpBQI9ZQhW7yjKUbr5-FAO0ivAzj5JE0s_bo3Sfs2qKZMylGToIXmo0xX4I6kuz6-38H7qwtK9Qn-FqCw27RRkAnoO44r7tX8eCV3ut3Mo-W8j18-/s320/Jonathan-Pollard.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5569169868962910162" /></a><div>The injustice applied against this <b>Hero</b> that is Jonathan Pollard, is a disgrace that muddles the USA.</div><div><br /></div><div>This man has been serving 26 years of a life sentence so far, while being totally innocent of the made up charges.</div><div><br /></div><div>Thousands of letters were already written to the several presidents of the United States of America, demanding his release. So why are they still keeping him in prison?</div><div><br /></div><div>This exposes the bias and the disgraceful behaviour of the US government towards not only Israel, but their supporters too.</div><div><br /></div><div>Here are the facts surrounding the Pollard case:</div><div><br /></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: medium; "><ol><li>Jonathan Pollard was a civilian American Naval intelligence analyst. In the mid 1980's (circa 1983-1984), Pollard discovered that information vital to Israel's security was being deliberately withheld by certain elements within the U.S. national security establishment.<p></p></li><li>Israel was legally entitled to this vital security information according to a 1983 Memorandum of Understanding between the two countries.<p></p></li><li>The information being withheld from Israel included Syrian, Iraqi, Libyan and Iranian nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare capabilities - being developed for use against Israel. It also included information on ballistic missile development by these countries and information on planned terrorist attacks against Israeli civilian targets.<p></p></li><li>When Pollard discovered this suppression of information and asked his superiors about it, he was told to "mind his own business", and that "Jews get nervous talking about poison gas; they don't need to know."<p>He also learned that the objective of cutting off the flow of information to Israel was to severely curtail Israel's ability to act independently in defense of her own interests.</p><p></p></li><li>Pollard was painfully aware that <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1992/060092.htm">Israeli lives</a> were being put in jeopardy as a result of this undeclared intelligence embargo. He did everything he possibly could to stop this covert policy and to have the legal flow of information to Israel restored. When his efforts met no success, he began to give the information to Israel directly.<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard was an ideologue, not a mercenary. The FBI concluded after nine months of polygraphing that Pollard acted for ideological reasons only, not for profit. This fact was recognized by the sentencing judge who declined to fine Pollard. <i>(See the <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/factsadd.htm">addendum</a> for further details.)</i><p>Furthermore, on May 11, 1998, Israel <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1998/051198d.htm">formally acknowledged</a> Jonathan Pollard had been a bona fide Israeli agent. This fact wiped out any remaining doubt about Jonathan Pollard's motives. Being an official agent is, by definition, the polar opposite of being a mercenary.</p><p></p></li><li>In 1985, his actions were discovered by the U.S. government. His instructions from Israel were to seek refuge in the Israeli embassy in Washington. When Pollard and his former wife sought refuge there, they were at first received and then summarily thrown out into the waiting arms of the FBI.<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard never had a trial. At the request of both the U.S. and Israeli governments, he entered into a plea agreement, which spared both governments a long, difficult, expensive and potentially embarrassing trial.<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard fulfilled his end of the plea agreement, cooperating fully with the prosecution.<p></p></li><li>Nevertheless, Pollard received a life sentence and a recommendation that he never be paroled - in complete violation of the plea agreement he had reached with the government.<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard was never indicted for harming the United States.<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard was never indicted for compromising codes, agents, or war plans.<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard was never charged with <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/091400c.htm">treason</a>. [Legally, treason is a charge that is only applicable when one spies for an enemy state in time of war.]<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard was indicted on only one charge: one count of passing classified information to an ally, without intent to harm the United States.<p></p></li><li><p>Prior to sentencing, then-Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger delivered a 46-page classified memorandum to the sentencing judge. Since then, neither Pollard nor any of his cleared attorneys have ever been allowed to access the memorandum to challenge the false charges it contains-a clear violation of Pollard's constitutional rights.</p><p>The day before sentencing, Weinberger delivered a four-page supplemental memorandum to the sentencing judge. In it, he falsely accused Pollard of treason. Also in the supplemental memorandum, Weinberger advocated a life sentence in clear violation of Pollard's plea agreement. The implication that follows from Weinberger's false characterization of Pollard's offense as "treason" is that the country Pollard served, Israel, is an enemy state.</p><p></p></li><li>Pollard was shown the supplemental Weinberger memorandum only once, just moments before sentencing - hardly adequate time to prepare an appropriate defense to rebut the false accusations in it.<p></p></li><li>No one else in the history of the United States has ever received a life sentence for passing classified information to an ally - only Jonathan Pollard. The median sentence for this offense is two to four years. Even agents who have committed far more serious offenses on behalf of hostile nations have not received such a harsh sentence.<p></p></li><li>Pollard's attorney never appealed from the life sentence. The time to file for such an appeal was within ten days of sentencing. Years later, with a different attorney, Pollard filed a <i>habeas corpus</i> challenge to the sentence.<p>The Court of Appeals, in a two-to-one decision, rejected the challenge, largely on procedural grounds.</p><p>The majority placed heavy emphasis on the failure to appeal from the life sentence in a timely manner, and on the resulting far heavier burden faced by Pollard in seeking to challenge the sentence via <i>habeas corpus</i>. <span ><i>[Note: "Habeas corpus" is a procedure by which an incarcerated person may bring a court challenge to the legality of his or her incarceration - often long after the underlying case has been concluded.]</i></span></p><p>In a <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1992/030292.htm">dissenting opinion,</a> Court of Appeals Judge Stephen Williams called the case "a fundamental miscarriage of justice," and wrote that he would have ordered that Pollard's sentence be vacated.</p><p></p></li><li>In November 1995, Israel granted Jonathan Pollard Israeli citizenship. The official presentation took place in January of 1996. This publicly signaled to the U.S. Israel's willingness to accept full responsibility for Pollard.<p><a name="volume"></a></p></li><li><a name="volume">U.S. government sources falsely accuse Pollard in the media of passing "rooms full of classified information" and "hundreds of thousands of documents" to Israel. This volume of information is an absurdity! Pollard would have needed to make numerous "drops" using a moving van to have transferred such a large volume of information. In actual fact, Jonathan Pollard made a grand total of <u>eleven</u> "drops" to the Israelis, using only a small briefcase to hold the documents.<p></p></a></li><li><a name="volume">The government used an insidious formula to exaggerate the volume of information that Jonathan Pollard passed to Israel. The formula was: if only <i>one page</i> or a <i>single sentence</i> of a document was passed to the Israelis, it was counted as if the <i>whole document</i> had been transmitted. Even referenced documents and sources were counted as having been transmitted <i>in toto</i>. Using this calculation, a <i>single page</i> could be counted as 50 hard-bound 500 page volumes!<p></p></a></li><li><a name="volume"><b>There is no Mr. "X".</b></a><p><a name="volume">The CIA claim that another highly-placed spy in the U.S. had to exist in order to give Jonathan Pollard his highly specific tasking orders is a complete fabrication. To understand how Pollard was tasked by Israel to secure specific documents, see: </a><a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1998/020598.htm">Was there another U.S. spy tasking Pollard? - Mr. ‘X' Exposed.</a></p><p></p></li><li>On May 12, 1998 , in the same statement in which the Government of Israel publicly acknowledged Jonathan Pollard as an Israeli agent, it accepted full responsibility for him, and indicated its commitment to securing his release and repatriation to Israel.<p></p></li><li>Jonathan Pollard has repeatedly expressed his remorse publicly and in private letters to the President and others. He regrets having broken the law, and is sorry he did not find a legal means to act upon his concerns for Israel. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/remorse.htm">Remorse Page.)</a></i><p><a name="mideast"></a><a name="wye"></a></p></li><li><a name="wye">Jonathan Pollard has been openly linked to the Middle East Peace Process since 1995.<p>The Israeli government recognized long ago that Jonathan's sentence was unjust, that the documents he delivered to Israel did not remotely cause the damage that the prosecution claimed but never proved. As a result of this recognition, various Israeli administrations have negotiated, as a matter of basic fairness, to secure Jonathan's release.</p><p>Since 1995, within the context of the peace process, the US has repeatedly exploited the plight of Jonathan Pollard to extract heavy concessions from Israel.</p><p>However despite express promises made by the United States to Israel, Jonathan Pollard remains in jail.</p><p></p></a></li><li><a name="wye">It was the late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin who, in 1995, first began openly to negotiate for Jonathan's release as part of the peace process.<p>Although President Clinton promised Prime Minister Rabin that he would release Jonathan as part of a Middle East peace settlement, the President refused to honor his promise after Rabin was assassinated.</p><p></p></a></li><li><a name="wye">Rabin's successor, Prime Minister Shimon Peres, continued to link Jonathan to the peace process, and even went so far as to include a spy swap proposal as part of the deal for Pollard's release.<p></p></a></li><li><a name="wye">The <b></b></a><b><a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/wye.htm">Wye Plantation</a></b> summit is a prime example of U.S. exploitation of Jonathan Pollard.<p>Both before and again during the Wye summit negotiations in the fall of 1998, President Clinton promised to release Jonathan Pollard. Pollard was the deal-maker at Wye which enabled the accords to be completed.</p><p></p></li><li>At the last minute, with the eyes of the world focused on the Wye Accords signing ceremony which was about to take place in Washington, Clinton reneged on Pollard's release, creating a storm of negative publicity for Israel.<p></p></li><li>How the Wye fiasco came about:<p>In September, 1998, just before the mid-term Congressional elections, President Clinton (who at the time was facing impeachment hearings and in need of a foreign policy PR victory) asked Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to attend a three-way summit with the Palestinians at Wye River, Maryland.</p><p>Clinton knew that a successful summit at Wye just before the Congressional elections would be good not only for his image, but would also reap great political benefits for the Democrats in their bid to regain control of Congress. As an inducement to Netanyahu, Clinton promised to release Jonathan Pollard within the context of the summit.</p><p>Understanding the value of Jonathan Pollard for his own re-election bid, and needing him as a sweetener to sell any kind of "peace" deal to the Israeli people, Netanyahu ignored the entreaties of Republican friends like Newt Gingrich and agreed to attend the summit. <i>(Gingrich would later repay Netanyahu by leading the Republican charge of slander and lies against Jonathan Pollard.)</i></p><p></p></li><li>Once the Wye summit was underway, Clinton quickly "forgot" his promise to free Jonathan Pollard and there was little Netanyahu could do.<p></p></li><li>Talks at Wye broke down over the release of Palestinian murderers with Jewish blood on their hands and over Israel's request for the extradition of Ghazi Jabali, the chief of Police in Gaza who was wanted for his role in planning and executing terrorist attacks in Israel.<p></p></li><li>To break the stalemate, the Palestinians suggested Jonathan Pollard as the solution. They proposed that Pollard be sold to Netanyahu once again: the US would give Jonathan to Israel in return for Israel's freeing of hundreds of Palestinian terrorists and immunity for Ghazi Jabali.<p></p></li><li>The US and Israel agreed to the Palestinian plan to swap Pollard for terrorists and murderers.<p>President Clinton personally worked out the details of the deal in a late-night private session with a Palestinian and an Israeli representative.</p><p></p></li><li>According to the deal, Prime Minister Netanyahu was to receive a side letter from President Clinton the next morning (one of approximately 30 side letters the Americans had promised) guaranteeing Pollard's release for November 11, 1998, one week after the US House elections.<p>The Pollard negotiation was the deal-maker at Wye which allowed the summit to be successfully wrapped up and a signing ceremony to be planned for the next morning in Washington, on Friday October 23, 1998.</p><p></p></li><li>Only hours before the signing ceremony, P.M. Netanyahu received all of the American side-letters that had been promised to him, except one - the one guaranteeing the release of Jonathan Pollard.<p>Netanyahu threatened not to attend the signing ceremony unless he got the Pollard side letter. Clinton said, "Trust me." Netanyahu, knowing he was about to be double-crossed by Clinton over Pollard for the second time, refused.</p><p>Netanyahu demanded that in the absence of a side letter of guarantee, Pollard should be freed into his custody immediately, or no signing ceremony. Arik Sharon supported Netanyahu and they threatened to leave Wye without signing the accords.</p><p></p></li><li>In order to take the pressure off of President Clinton, CIA chief George Tenet quickly leaked the news of Pollard's imminent release to the media in a deliberate - and ultimately successful - attempt to torpedo the deal.<p>He sent emissaries to Capitol Hill to hold emergency meetings with leading Senators and Congressmen to enlist their support in publicly denouncing Pollard's release. Many lies were told by the CIA emissaries about Jonathan Pollard to convince the legislators to act swiftly and in unison. Believing the lies, the legislators complied and began an unprecedented series of public actions to prevent the release of Jonathan Pollard.</p><p></p></li><li>Meanwhile at Wye, under heavy pressure and still fearful that Netanyahu would not back down, Clinton quickly negotiated a private fall-back position with Netanyahu: Clinton would publicly promise to do a "speedy review"of the Pollard Case and he would use that review to free Pollard a few months later, parallel to the release of the 750 Palestinian terrorists who were part of the price Israel had agreed to pay for Pollard.<p>Under heavy public pressure and betrayed by his own Minister of Defense, Yitzhak Mordecai*, who closed ranks with Clinton, Netanyahu folded and accepted this private deal. The signing ceremony was held in Washington as scheduled. *<i>(Mordecai himself is now on trial in Israel in 2001 for sexual assault.)</i></p><p></p></li><li>Netanyahu's capitulation at Wye, the public spectacle of his being brought to heel by the Americans, and the lopsided deal he brought home from Wye now that Pollard was no longer perceived to be a part of it, would shortly cost him his premiership.<p></p></li><li>After Wye, the White House falsely accused Netanyahu of having injected Pollard into the Wye summit at the last moment.<p>However, eye witnesses to the Pollard deal at Wye, including the Israeli and the Palestinian who had negotiated the deal with Clinton and the former Israeli Cabinet Secretary, all later contradicted the White House version of events and affirmed that President Clinton had committed himself to the release of Jonathan Pollard as an integral part of the Wye Accords.</p><p></p><blockquote><b>Note</b>: Prime Minister Netanyahu was the first prime minster of Israel to agree to free Palestinian terrorists with Jewish blood on their hands. That is the price the Americans demanded for Pollard at Wye. To this day, this represents a keen embarrassment for Netanyahu and his party, even more so since he did not receive Pollard but the Palestinian murders were released nonetheless. That is why no official source from the Netanyahu government ever wants to publicly admit to it. They keep the details to a minimum, but all concur that Pollard's freedom was bought and paid for by "concessions"at Wye.</blockquote><p></p></li><li>When Netanyahu returned to Israel after Wye, he created a firestorm of publicity by releasing 200 Palestinian common criminals from Israeli prisons.<p>The Palestinians were outraged, and insisted that these common criminals were not the prisoners that they had bargained for at Wye. The Americans angrily protested. Netanyahu reminded the Americans that the Wye Accords do not specify exactly which prisoners Israel must release. Critics wondered if the Prime Minister had lost his mind to antagonize the Americans this way.</p><p>Only those close to Prime Minister Netanyahu understood that this was Netanyahu's private, pointed reminder to Bill Clinton that if he was thinking of double-crossing him yet a third time over Pollard, he should think again. No Pollard, no release for the Palestinian murderers and terrorists.</p><p>Unfortunately for Jonathan Pollard, Netanyahu's government fell before he was able to act on this.</p><p></p></li><li>In a meeting with Netanyahu right after his electoral defeat in the Spring of 1999, Jonathan Pollard's wife, Esther, received assurances from the former prime minister that the new prime minister, Ehud Barak, had been fully briefed about what had been agreed to at Wye and about the fall-back position; that is to say, Israel had yet to free the 750 terrorists with blood on their hands and was still supposed to receive Pollard home in a "parallel gesture" from President Clinton.<p></p></li><li>Not long after Barak took office, the 750 Palestinian murderers and terrorists walked out of prison as free men. Jonathan Pollard remained in his American jail cell.<p></p></li><li>In an attempt to justify Clinton's reneging at Wye, a story was leaked to the press that George Tenet, a Clinton appointee, had threatened to resign as head of the CIA if Pollard were released.<p>The story, though not logical, sounded plausible and it became popular to cite the opposition of the American Intelligence community as the reason Clinton did not honor his commitment at Wye to free Pollard.</p><p>This was soon exposed as the lame excuse it was when Clinton freed a group of unrepentant FALN terrorists in the fall of 1999, in an attempt to improve his wife's popularity with New York State's Hispanic community in her election bid for the Senate. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/senate.htm">Senate Race Page.</a>)</i></p><p>To this day, the same lame excuse continues to be used to justify the unjustifiable failure of Clinton to honor his commitment.</p><p></p></li><li>In September of 1999, despite strenuous opposition from all of his government advisors and agencies, President Clinton freed 14 unrepentant Puerto Rican terrorists, members of the FALN, charged with bank robbery and various acts of terrorism, including over 130 bombings in the US, and the deaths of American police officers.<p>Clinton ignored a solid wall of opposition from the Justice, Intelligence and Defense departments and Congress, invoked his powers of executive clemency and set the FALN terrorists free. In doing so, he unequivocally put the lie to the notion that any government agency might tie his hands or influence his decision in matters of clemency. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/senate.htm">FALN Page</a> and <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/clemency.htm">Clemency Page.</a>)</i></p><p></p></li><li>More than two years elapsed after Wye. President Clinton did no review. Jonathan Pollard remained in prison while the US continued to extract Israeli concessions for his release.<p></p></li><li>Those who still believed the myth that it was the American Intelligence Community that was tying the hands of President Clinton, also clung to the belief he would finally honor his many promises to release Jonathan Pollard - including the commitment he had made at Wye - at the end of his term, when he could do so without fear of political reprisal.<p></p></li><li>Beginning in 1991 Rabbi Mordecai Eliyahu, the former Chief Rabbi of Israel, and Jonathan's rabbi, offered himself to the U.S. Justice Department as Jonathan's guarantor. The offer was ignored.<p>Rabbi Eliyahu repeated the same offer every year after that in private letters to President Clinton.</p><p>Every offer went unacknowledged until the fall of 2000, when Esther Pollard received a letter from the White House indicating that the President was aware of the former chief Rabbi's offer and that it would be part of the President's consideration in reaching a final decision on her husband's case.</p><p></p></li><li>President Clinton never kept his promises.<p>When he left office in January 2001, Jonathan Pollard was not included among those that to whom Clinton granted clemency:</p><ul><li>in spite of his repeated express commitments to Israel to free Pollard in return for numerous heavy concessions</li><li>in spite of his commitment to free Pollard as an integral part if the Wye Accords</li><li>in spite of the appeals of the Jewish community, and</li><li>in spite of the gross injustices of the Pollard case which include:<ul><li>a <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/sentences.htm">grossly disproportionate sentence</a></li><li>a broken plea agreement</li><li>use of secret evidence</li><li>a false charge of treason</li><li>ineffective assistance of counsel</li><li><i>ex parte</i> communication between prosecutors and judge</li><li>a lack of due process</li><li>a sentencing procedure infected by false allegations and lies</li></ul></li></ul><p>On his last day in office, Clinton granted clemency to 140 people. Many who received executive clemency had been convicted of very serious offenses, including murder, robbery and drug dealing. Some of those pardoned had served no prison time at all before being pardoned. Among those pardoned were Clinton's brother, and a former head of the CIA. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/clemency.htm">Clemency Page.</a>)</i></p><p></p></li><li>In September of 2000, Jonathan Pollard's attorneys, Eliot Lauer and Jacques Semmelman, filed <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/092000a.htm">a motion</a> in the US District Court of Columbia to vacate his sentence.<p>The motion, supported by documentation, presents a compelling and very disturbing picture of serious government misconduct that went unchecked by Mr. Pollard's then-counsel. As a result of that misconduct, and as a result of his attorney's ineffectiveness Jonathan Pollard was sentenced to life in prison on the basis of false allegations, and under circumstances that violated his plea agreement. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/092000b.htm">Legal Doc: Declaration of Jonathan Jay Pollard In Support of Motion for Resentencing.</a> See also <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/092000a.htm">Legal Doc: Memorandum of Law in Support of Jonathan Jay Pollard's § 2255 Motion for Resentencing.</a>)</i></p><p></p></li><li>Since he was sentenced in 1987, none of Jonathan Pollard's security-cleared attorneys have been able to see the classified portions of the docket in order to challenge them in a court of law or to defend him in a clemency proceeding.<p>In September of 2000, Jonathan Pollard's attorneys filed a separate motion requesting that attorney Eliot Lauer be allowed access to the secret portions of the Pollard court docket. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/120600a.htm">Legal Doc: Motion to Unseal the Pollard Record.</a>)</i></p><p></p></li><li>On January 12, 2001, Chief Judge Norma Holloway Johnson denied the attorneys' request to allow Eliot Lauer access to the complete Pollard docket, upholding the government's claim that Lauer's seeing the secret portion of the record poses a risk to American national security.<p>Both Lauer and Semmelman hold TOP SECRET level security clearances, which they obtained from the Justice Department in order to be eligible to see their client's full record.</p><p>A motion for reconsideration was filed January 18, 2001. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2001/011801.htm">Legal Doc: Motion for Reconsideration of Court Order.</a>)</i></p><p></p></li><li>Amicus briefs supporting Jonathan's new legal cases have been filed by the <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/120600b.htm">American Civil Liberties Union,</a> as well as by <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/122800.htm">top American legal authorities.</a> <i>(See Amici Briefs on the <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/court2000.htm">Court Case Page.</a>)</i><p></p></li><li>Five Prime Ministers of Israel and three Presidents of Israel have requested Jonathan Pollard's release from the United States. Israel has pledged to be responsible for its agent who has served many years in prison under harsh conditions, and who has fully and repeatedly expressed his remorse. <i>(See <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/remorse.htm">Remorse Page.</a>)</i><p>Between close friends and strong allies, that ought to be enough.</p><h3><li>On November 21, 2010, Jonathan Pollard entered the <u>26th</u> year of his <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/sentences.htm"><u>life sentence</u>,</a> with no end in sight.</li></h3></li></ol></span></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-72960334880385017322011-01-18T11:07:00.000-08:002011-01-18T11:17:09.033-08:00Exposing Muhammad's evil<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi0Bxqz5c2jr1KPUcjLte7lWHBClCueekPzyXIYUnyklkaS9TZeOCi9musWkOhQDFWGSfT-F27-H25FyvIF2ho8Z5nYPf60bkefPOMc_nG7MQgABYXQtkyIGXNwSzEG56cctHaP6iskXRTc/s1600/Blasphemous+Cartoon.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 215px; height: 320px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi0Bxqz5c2jr1KPUcjLte7lWHBClCueekPzyXIYUnyklkaS9TZeOCi9musWkOhQDFWGSfT-F27-H25FyvIF2ho8Z5nYPf60bkefPOMc_nG7MQgABYXQtkyIGXNwSzEG56cctHaP6iskXRTc/s320/Blasphemous+Cartoon.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5563605103772513602" /></a><div><span class="Apple-style-span" >An article by the PYEM Ministry Inc. </span><br /><div><br /></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); ">This cartoon by Feica published in English daily of Pakistan 'Dawn', depicts the draconian nature of torturer rapist murderer liar cheater deceiver Muhammed's blasphemy laws against non-muslims. Muhammed, you will never be forgiven. May you rot and burn in hell for eternity and for ever. You are a disgrace to mankind and people who follow and worship you are deceived by Satan</span><br /><span style="font-size: 11px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); ">----------------------------------------</span><wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-size: 11px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); ">---------------------------------</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" >What do Quran and Hadith say about blasphemy? Are blasphemy laws and Quran+hadith two seperate entities? Read below and find out what a disgusting, inhuman and barbaric bastard prophet Muhammed really was:</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >1 – The ruling on one who insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)</span><br /><br /><b><span class="Apple-style-span" >The scholars are unanimously agreed that a Muslim who insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) becomes a kaafir and an apostate who is to be executed</span><span class="Apple-style-span" >.</span></b><b style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); "> </b><span class="Apple-style-span" >This consensus was narrated by more than one of the scholars, such as Imaam Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, Ibn al-Mundhir, al-Qaadi ‘Iyaad, al-Khattaabi and others. Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 2/13-16</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >This ruling is indicated by the Qur’aan and Sunnah.</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >In the Qur’aan it says (interpretation of the meaning):</span><br /><br /><b><span class="Apple-style-span" >“The hypocrites fear lest a Soorah (chapter of the Qur’aan) should be revealed about them, showing them what is in their hearts. Say: ‘(Go ahead and) mock! But certainly Allaah will bring to light all that you fear.’</span></b><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >If you ask them (about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly and joking.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allaah, and His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger that you were mocking?’</span><br /><br /><b><span class="Apple-style-span" >Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believed”</span></b><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >[al-Tawbah 9:64-66]</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >This verse clearly states that mocking Allaah, His verses and His Messenger constitutes kufr, so that applies even more so to insulting. The verse also indicates that </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" >whoever belittles the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is also a kaafir, whether he was serious or joking.</span></b><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >With regard to the Sunnah, Abu Dawood (4362) narrated from ‘Ali that </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" >a Jewish woman used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him, so a man strangled her until she died, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled that no blood money was due in this case.</span></b><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Saarim al-Maslool (1/162): This hadeeth is jayyid, and there is a corroborating report in the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas which we will quote below.</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >This hadeeth clearly indicates that it was permissible to kill that woman because she used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >Abu Dawood (4361) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that a blind man had a freed concubine (umm walad) who used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him. He told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she did not heed him. One night, when she started to say bad things about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and insult him, he took a short sword or dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it and killed her. </span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" ><br /></span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" >The following morning that was mentioned to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He called the people together and said, “I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right over him that he should stand up.” The blind man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I am the one who did it; she used to insult you and say bad things about you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not give up her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was kind to me. Last night she began to insult you and say bad things about you. </span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" ><br /></span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" >So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Bear witness, there is no blood money due for her.”</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 3655)</span><br /><br /><b><span class="Apple-style-span" >It seems that this woman was a kaafir, not a Muslim, for a Muslim could never do such an evil action. If she was a Muslim she would have become an apostate by this action, in which case it would not have been permissible for her master to keep her; in that case it would not have been good enough if he were to keep her and simply rebuke her.</span></b><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >Al-Nasaa’i narrated (4071) that Abu Barzah al-Aslami said: A man spoke harshly to Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq and I said, ‘Shall I kill him?’ He rebuked me and said, ‘That is not for anyone after the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) .’” (Saheeh al-Nasaa’i, 3795)</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >It may be noted from this that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had the right to kill whoever insulted him and spoke harshly to him, and that included both Muslims and kaafirs.</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >The second issue is: if a person who insulted the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) repents, should his repentance be accepted or not?</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >The scholars are agreed that if such a person repents sincerely and regrets what he has done, this repentance will benefit him on the Day of Resurrection and Allaah will forgive him.</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >But they differed as to whether his repentance should be accepted in this world and whether that means he is no longer subject to the sentence of execution.</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >Maalik and Ahmad were of the view that it should not be accepted, and that he should be killed even if he has repented.</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >They quoted as evidence the Sunnah and proper understanding of the ahaadeeth:</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >In the Sunnah, Abu Dawood (2683) narrated that Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqaas said: “On the Day of the Conquest of Makkah, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) granted safety to the people except for four men and two women, and he named them, and Ibn Abi Sarh… As for Ibn Abi Sarh, he hid with ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan, and when the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) called the people to give their allegiance to him, he brought him to stand before the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). </span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" ><br /></span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" >He said, “O Prophet of Allaah, accept the allegiance of ‘Abd-Allaah.” He raised his head and looked at him three times, refusing him, then he accepted his allegiance after the third time. Then he turned to his companions and said: “Was there not among you any smart man who could have got up and killed this person when he saw me refusing to give him my hand and accept his allegiance?” They said, “We do not know what is in your heart, O Messenger of Allaah. Why did you not gesture to us with your eyes?” He said, “It is not befitting for a Prophet to betray a person with a gesture of his eyes.”</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 2334)</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >This clearly indicates that in a case such as this apostate who had insulted the Prophet (S), it is not obligatory to accept his repentance, rather it is permissible to kill him even if he comes repentant.</span><br /><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" >‘Abd-Allaah ibn Sa’d was one of those who used to write down the Revelation, then he apostatized and claimed that he used to add whatever he wanted to the Revelation. This was a lie and a fabrication against the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and it was a kind of insult. Then he became Muslim again and was a good Muslim, may Allaah be pleased with him. Al-Saarim 115.</span></span></span></div></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" ><br /></span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 15px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" ><span class="Apple-style-span" ><br /></span></span></span></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-52250902663303855642010-12-29T06:54:00.001-08:002010-12-29T07:01:03.711-08:00Revisiting the Doctrina Jacobi Nuper Baptizati<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjYn9LjTbBqt3YpW7haRXQiZZuf8NOMdfWmRWQL5kSxWmZRVI68bzBhJp6BoXE8hFMf2PiB4B9zJ8vthDyNd_HRpROB9pmsL7utLqjxXbHrQv18ox4VdPDTevc2wEUeeiLnVHam3ep_x3Hd/s1600/Byzantine-era_Saracen_Army.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 276px; height: 320px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjYn9LjTbBqt3YpW7haRXQiZZuf8NOMdfWmRWQL5kSxWmZRVI68bzBhJp6BoXE8hFMf2PiB4B9zJ8vthDyNd_HRpROB9pmsL7utLqjxXbHrQv18ox4VdPDTevc2wEUeeiLnVHam3ep_x3Hd/s320/Byzantine-era_Saracen_Army.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5556119386339208098" /></a><br /><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; "><p style="margin-top: 20px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 10px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">The Teaching of Jacob, Didaskalia Jakobou; Ethiopic Sargis d'Aberga is a 7th century <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Greek_language" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Greek</a> <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Christian" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Christian</a> anti-Jewish <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/polemic" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">polemic</a>al tract set in <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Carthage" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Carthage</a> in <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/634" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">634</a> but written in <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Palestine" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Palestine</a> sometime between 634 and 640. It supposedly records a July 13, 634 discussion between a Jewish forced convert to Christianity, Jacob, and some Jews about the condition of the Byzantine Empire in light of the recent Arab conquests, and how they should proceed as he had done, and convert to Christianity.</p><p style="margin-top: 20px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 10px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">The text provides one of the earliest external accounts of <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Islam" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Islam</a>, presenting a significantly different Islamic <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/historiography" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">historiography</a> than found in traditional Islamic texts. It also shows Jacob comparing the Byzantine Empire to the fourth beast of the prophecy of <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Daniel" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Daniel</a> from Christian <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/eschatology" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">eschatology</a>. Although not unfamiliar imagery, it is part of a series of Byzantine literature, from the early stages of the Islamic religion, of trying to reconcile Islam with the apocalyptic vision. Further examples of this are contained in the pseudo-Athanasian's Quaestiones ad Antiochum ducem, and the Quaestiones et responsiones attributed to Anastasius of Sinai.</p><p style="margin-top: 20px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 10px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">It records a prophet in Arabia during the birth time of Islamic tradition proclaiming the advent of a Jewish <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Messiah" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Messiah</a>. The document contradicts the notion in Islamic tradition that the prophet was dead at the time of the conquest of Palestine but agrees with some traditions of other peoples of the time.</p></span></div><div><br /></div>This is an extract of the document called Doctrina Jacobi Nuper Baptizati<div><br /></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; ">When the <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Sergios" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">candidatus</a> was killed by the <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Saracens" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Saracens</a>, I was at <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Caesarea" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Caesarea</a> and I set off by boat to <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Greece" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Sykamina</a>. People were saying "the candidatus has been killed," and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were saying that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the<a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Messiah" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">anointed one</a>, the <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Christ" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Christ</a> who was to come. </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; "><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; ">I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: "What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?" </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; "><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; ">He replied, groaning deeply:<b> "He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Antichrist" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Antichrist</a>. Indeed, <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Isaiah" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Isaiah</a> said that the <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Jew" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">Jew</a>s would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared." So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has <a href="http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Keys_of_Heaven" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(71, 60, 139); ">the keys of paradise</a>, which is incredible.</b></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; "><b><br /></b></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; ">Even at that time, which was the time contemporaneous to Muhammad's life, he was already deemed a liar, and a bloodthirsty anti-Christ.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; "><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, 'Lucida Sans Regular', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(40, 40, 40); line-height: 16px; "><br /></span></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-43981395342834615682010-09-13T01:43:00.000-07:002010-09-13T02:10:05.873-07:00EDL - American and Saudi Embassy - 11th September 2010<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEikHmK7pBBKydp1_atRCpJNtQLFpvGua6xJenFoAKUT3o43eB_-3br7iseWjCDmFiQdamZtKh6JyvK8J563Fk7GY8KkSR7qTcSvQnTFLQvpuQb_6O8asoL6-aPWxSAhE5mkTG6h9rXAKxCd/s1600/Burning+shahada.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEikHmK7pBBKydp1_atRCpJNtQLFpvGua6xJenFoAKUT3o43eB_-3br7iseWjCDmFiQdamZtKh6JyvK8J563Fk7GY8KkSR7qTcSvQnTFLQvpuQb_6O8asoL6-aPWxSAhE5mkTG6h9rXAKxCd/s320/Burning+shahada.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5516322036168586130" /></a><br />Just when we thought that the Islamic community would show some respect during the September 11th remembrance, the utterly evil fanatic lunatics of MAC (Muslims against Crusade) - which is in fact a reborn Islam4UK headed by the sickening benefit claimant Anjem Choudary, decided to burn the American flag on that sacred day, and outside the American Embassy, while the British Police just looked on.<div><br /></div><div>The EDL marched through the city to the American Embassy to lay reefs for the victims of this insane Islamic attack on the Twin Towers, and carried out a 2 minutes silence to remember those innocent civilians who were callously murdered, when some Muslim fanatics hijacked a couple of planes and hit the buildings. All this of course, financed by the Saudi government.</div><div><br /></div><div>Muslims have been doing this for centuries. They attack our countries and cities, murder our people, and then build tasteless mosques on these sacred murder grounds in order to gloat. This audacity is typical of Islam, and our tolerance is reaching boiling point now.</div><div><br /></div><div>While most of the idiotic and insensitive Leftist (scum) media goes around labelling the EDL as racist and fascist thugs, their friends, the Muslim fanatics (scum) were the ones behaving in such manner, desecrating the US flag and shouting "Democracy go to Hell", amongst other pathetic chants, that only retards can come up with.</div><div><br /></div><div>One of their placards also said: <b>"Jesus will destroy the cross and follow Islam"</b>, which in my opinion is very insulting to the Christian population of Great Britain. And yet, the British (hypocrite) police did not arrest these people, even though they were blatantly and evidently inciting Religious hate.</div><div><br /></div><div>The police penned the EDL in and did not allow them to carry out their work, which was to stop this horrific and disgraceful expression of pure putrid hatred in our streets on such a sacred day.</div><div>In my view, the Met police now deserves nothing but only our contempt. </div><div>I said it before and I will say it again: <b>TOLERANCE AGAINST EVIL IS A CRIME.</b> They will do well in paying attention to this. In my view now the Police is criminal and as such should be treated with disdain.</div><div>They have betrayed the British people that pay their wages, and as such they have forsaken their right to be treated with respect.</div><div><br /></div><div>So here is the EDL showing exactly what they think of the Islamic radical filth.</div><div><b>They have burned their shahada flags, several of them, while chanting "Muslim bombers off our streets!"</b></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-75496484436874156342010-09-06T11:00:00.000-07:002010-09-07T02:19:06.374-07:00EDL Counter-protest against the al-quds march - 4th September 2010<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiR6pG8iSD74nC-HO_232dY_8JTtqmdQYyLUzCqPSuqcHxh5-UGbmn0pp8kIPYVSzLiWmdzPoAB7WZRxo8GrAr8ro-YFzjMA0Ihs-gEVoPPrKKmK5m_D-g8O5HV1JmSD78wqyUzkCEeFK_l/s1600/friends.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiR6pG8iSD74nC-HO_232dY_8JTtqmdQYyLUzCqPSuqcHxh5-UGbmn0pp8kIPYVSzLiWmdzPoAB7WZRxo8GrAr8ro-YFzjMA0Ihs-gEVoPPrKKmK5m_D-g8O5HV1JmSD78wqyUzkCEeFK_l/s320/friends.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5514098560136536386" /></a><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEihFcxvz_E4yY083qDcaWCV2xW6TEGHV23zTkn87ryYBrcnRsdl3LFsSvLcvr_vqqpwGBsf1h0OYxmFaJDYvvo1-kuZIgJIZAatDpND9xURSI_dP9SYd565V8a-5O4tCsoyeuyGh4djykmW/s320/edl.jpg" style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5514098556127841986" /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhp8DKxxWoPHN6uZUNqIUiMBlbbmP1ydwec3GX7g1gbnlrmY_u3gwXWldcTl63WCK9_Rqwg2z2nsQuMRY9c8PFUZWd7QhsBJKTP-i4D9WhJF4yaBm1rVGV1VH2TWMT-QT8BPjt2cYJOz4Y4/s1600/ZF.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhp8DKxxWoPHN6uZUNqIUiMBlbbmP1ydwec3GX7g1gbnlrmY_u3gwXWldcTl63WCK9_Rqwg2z2nsQuMRY9c8PFUZWd7QhsBJKTP-i4D9WhJF4yaBm1rVGV1VH2TWMT-QT8BPjt2cYJOz4Y4/s320/ZF.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5514098187252739042" /></a><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhkEsPlP5N8CMXDGEOZtpKLMlnn2W4n7Qn1eQnPK_jQXgiK16JrpwDDANl7bN_6fcNVGHN9SXbj0hM0gbv_ICVH0FMZyhDpwGAUau_fuE0qCvgqH_M-GFbmVHiH8Ge1JDuzFYHk5u2ni9L8/s320/israel.jpg" style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 240px; height: 320px;" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5514096939600079378" /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEizgpwCcLiMBByisuFB7aHk1eh9eCbL3qn7AHSjrrtJJu6L9muwqLv4e9S1EhL-1J5f837UTUJr0n4lDWtZhER5ie74Ia_-v_1VM61rKI6vGBfAWoyFnq4N6VxErfiqkYFI39WLMo0Wse8i/s1600/sickos.jpg"><br /></a><br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEggvIOcRswc9z9Lizzp2-XmUvkFi3GK-95bad8mpa_pwfJ0_gQ4Vas6wRoEe2QkAHeWrXp9nyiA7V_O4kj0gS56mp1AbN1tRgohYApmgN5igwFyey-YG427ZJDwDmfg6fMMglSXmNSMWBLL/s1600/IMG00010-20100904-1440.jpg"><br /></a><br /><br /><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgF84bNf0I48ZCFWgQG5ZMuh3WiNUmRy7D5IPjx4m1N7UB4dBL79FFw0tjWo-i6yIkjClwe1jHbt9uaS9DLBMHmH0f8B4CWOE-bPgWI1GGjKAaqbPUwpPWUYAsk96qPHUI7Z4nlECD9JgHZ/s320/Al+quds.jpg" style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5514096352652845010" /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>Another group of racist and fascist islamo-nazis has once again taken to our streets to carry out their annual hate message of demonizing Israel and Jews, calling for boycotts to Israel, falsely claiming Zionism is racism, in short condemning anything and everything Israeli/Jewish/Zionist.</div><div><br /></div><div>They are the organizers of the al-quds march.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>For those who don't know, al-quds is how the Arabs refer to Jerusalem. They usually start referring to a particular city by the Arabic name they give to it, in order to eventually claim it for themselves as waqf land. </b><br /><div><br /><div>Boy, these guys have a huge chip on their shoulders when it comes to Israel.</div><div><br /></div><div>A friend of mine said that in the majority of the cases - and this majority is truly a majority -the ones who hate Israel are in fact harbouring a hate for their fathers. Now, truly this is quite understandable if you look at it from a psychological point of view. I guess that if I was a Muslim I would also, perhaps, hate my father, giving that in Islam the father seems to control the affairs of the whole family. Luckily I come from a decent family that has the notion of equality in the highest of esteems, so no worries there for my father. </div><div>Their hate for Israel hides an individual darker secret of each of those people, something that they cannot bring to the surface, so this hate is morphed into "hating Israel", while most of these people actually know nothing about Israel, Israelis or Jews. </div><div>It means,<b> their hate for Israel is baseless and has no merit other than hide the utter miserable depression that their lives are, or pure and simple racism. </b></div><div><br /></div><div>While these<b> utterly fascist people</b> marched from Marble Arch to Park Lane and towards the US Embassy, calling themselves<b> "We are all Hezbollah",</b> our British Police merely stood by and looked on. The counter-protesters were enclosed in pens. Typical. The fascists have the free reign in our streets and those who defend the streets and the people from these racists, are to be kept apart. Perhaps if the police did not interfere so much, these fascist scum would not be marching in our streets anymore, as we would have by now taken care of them.</div><div><br /></div><div>It disgusts me to see how useless and dhimmified our governments are! How dare our so-called "leaders" allow those racist/fascist Islamo-Nazis march in our streets calling for the end of another country, i.e. genocide?? </div><div>The level of anti-Israel sentiment in this country is utterly appalling!! This is also a result of the lack of education given to our children. In schools they teach Islam and deny the holocaust. They praise a paedophile prophet and hold him as "the best of men", while teaching the Jews are Zionist demons, who control the world. A bloody disgrace! </div><div><br /></div><div>To counter the extremely leftist, fascist and racist al-quds march, were the MFE, EDL, ZF and the Iranians for a Free Iran. The Iranians were protesting against the extremely militant Islamic regime in Iran and the EDL, MFE and ZF were protesting against the racist march in our streets and against the blatant and flagrant anti-Israel/Zionist/Jewish demonstration by the Islamo-fascists organizers of this filthy march, where ignorant people join hands to glorify the genocidal maniacs Hezbollah, that are financed by Iran to murder Jews.</div><div><br /></div><div>Many of those daddy haters had placards saying: "WE ARE ALL HEZBOLLAH". </div><div><br /></div><div>A reason to be shot on the spot, no? </div><div><br /></div><div>We all know how the media loves to manipulate stories and evidence of criminal nature, principally when it is about their Islamo-fascist friends. After all, they have sold their souls to <b>these infidels who care nothing for the pure laws of virtue and honour, but care a great deal for violent jihad against the indigenous people of this country, and the peaceful hard working immigrants that reside in the land of Hope and Glory. </b></div><div><br /></div><div>These Jihadists will learn the hard way. </div><div><br /></div><div>The EDL surely makes the Islamo-fascists look utterly ridiculous when they, the Islamo-fascist haters take to the streets to preach their filth :<b> Hate for Israel, hate for Jews, hate for Zionists, hate for non-Muslims, hate for women, hate for homosexuals, hate for dogs, and the list goes on... it's really all about hate. </b></div><div><br /></div><div>Here is the background of the al-Quds brigade:</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" line-height: 19px; font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">al-Quds Brigade</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> is the armed wing of the Palestinian Islamist organization, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), an extremist Jihadist, fascist and racist organization whose sole goal is to commit genocide against the Israeli people. They are especially active in Judea and Samaria (</span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank" title="West Bank" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background-image: none; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">West Bank</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> and the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip" title="Gaza Strip" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background-image: none; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Gaza Strip</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">), the al-Quds Brigades are reportedly receiving orders from the PIJ leadership in </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus" title="Damascus" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background-image: none; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Damascus</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria" title="Syria" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background-image: none; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Syria</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, but they are also financially backed by the Islamic fascist and racist regime of Iran.</span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The al-Quds Brigades were very active in the West Bank, especially in the town of </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenin" title="Jenin" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background-image: none; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Jenin</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, but extensive operations against its infrastructures carried out by the IDF resulted in severe losses to the group, and it appeared significantly weakened by 2004 in that region</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 10px; white-space: nowrap; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">.</span></span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Due to the fact that these fascists are unable to destroy the Jewish people, the supporters of the Nazi al-Quds brigade take to the streets in London <b>to obtain international approval for murder and genocide against an entire race, by using lies and deceit </b>. Their deceitful rhetoric goes along the lines of comparing the only democratic country in the Middle East to an "Apartheid" State. But it does not stop there.</span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">They also use the utterly genocidal propaganda to claim "We are all Hezbollah", referring to the Lebanese terrorist organization created solely for the purpose to annihilate Israel from the map. Of course, they failed too. </span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">If that was not enough, these fascists also have the chutzpah to pretend everything is a sea of roses in Iran and that homosexuals, apostates and women are not systematically murdered.</span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><br /></span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">They will indeed go to any lengths to demonize Israel, Jews and Zionists while praising the genocidal traits of the Islamic regime. </span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><br /></span></p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" line-height: normal; font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:16px;"></span></span></p><div><div><div>And yet, the corrupted media has the chutzpah to hide the truth!! They use all sorts of tricks to pervert the course of justice, but they are failing miserably. The people of the UK are waking up to this Islamic threat. They can see life changing for the worse all around them, and they don't like it.</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div>So it's time that all the people who feel this way and who is waking up to this menace, to stand up and be counted. Join the EDL and get your voices heard.</div></span><p></p></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-18004273771146639942010-08-24T12:07:00.001-07:002010-08-26T11:53:06.432-07:00Gaza pictures - What the Media does not want you to see<div>THIS IS GAZA! YES, GAZA!!</div><div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>Here are the photos that the media does not want you to see.</div><div>This is GAZA, the place that most ignorants call a "prison camp" for the poor Palestinians.</div><div>Here we see that this is not a prison camp, and the Palestinians are neither poor nor deprived of anything.</div></div><div>In fact they are quite sustained, have plenty of food, clothes and fun things to do.</div><div><br /></div><div>All courtesy of ISRAEL!!! </div><div><br /></div><div><div>Meanwhile in Haiti and Sudan for example, the people are desperate for need and for such "Humanitarian Flotillas" that never seem to come. Where are these so-called "Humanitarians" when people actually need them?</div></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;"><h2 align="center">Israel’s Humanitarian Aid in Gaza</h2><h2 align="center"><div align="center"><img src="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/Gaza/aid7.jpg" /><p></p></div></h2><h3 align="center">(Updated January 21, 2009)</h3><hr /><table width="90%" border="1"><tbody><tr><td>During the three weeks of Israel's operation against <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hamastoc.html">Hamas</a>, 1,202 trucks carrying over 29,000 tons of humanitarian aid supplies have entered the<a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gazatoc.html">Gaza Strip</a> through Israel.</td></tr></tbody></table><table width="90%" border="1"><tbody><tr><td width="30%">Organization/<br />Country</td><td width="35%">Goods</td><td width="15%">Number of trucks</td><td width="20%">Tons</td></tr><tr><td>ICRC</td><td>Medical equipment & medicine supply, 5 ambulances and car equipment</td><td>36</td><td>230</td></tr><tr><td>UNRWA</td><td>Food, Medical equipment & medicine supply, candles, generators</td><td>169</td><td>3,177</td></tr><tr><td>WFP</td><td>Food</td><td>105</td><td>2,903</td></tr><tr><td>WHO</td><td>Medical equipment & medicine supply</td><td>18</td><td>184</td></tr><tr><td>UNICEF</td><td>Medical equipment & medicine supply</td><td>6</td><td>109</td></tr><tr><td>MSF</td><td>Medical equipment</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td>MDM</td><td>Medical equipment</td><td>1</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td>Kingdom of Jordan</td><td>Food, blankets, Medical equipment & medicine supply and blood units</td><td>59</td><td><p>1,438</p><p>(2,124 blood units)</p></td></tr><tr><td>Greece</td><td>Medical equipment, food, blood units</td><td>2</td><td>26</td></tr><tr><td>Egypt</td><td>Food</td><td>23</td><td>674</td></tr><tr><td>Turkey</td><td>Medical equipment & medicine supply, 5 ambulances, food</td><td>13</td><td>180</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Total International Community</strong></td><td> </td><td>435</td><td>10,042</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Private Sector</strong></td><td>Medical equipment & medicine supply and food</td><td>371</td><td>9,941</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Total International Community and Private Sector</strong></td><td> </td><td>806</td><td>19,983</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>(Table courtesy of <a href="http://www.theisraelproject.org/">The Israel Project</a>)</p><p align="justify">Since Israel’s <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/news.html">Operation Cast Lead</a> against <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hamastoc.html">Hamas</a> began on Saturday, December 27 in response to three years of rocket attacks on Israel’s southern towns, Israel has been doing everything in its power to aid the Palestinian civilians residing in <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gazatoc.html">Gaza</a>. The Israeli government has made it overly clear that it does not wish to harm innocent civilians and that it will continue to help them for the duration of the operation.</p><p align="justify">In preparation for the coming operation, The Israeli government sent 90 trucks worth of humanitarian aid goods into <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gazatoc.html">Gaza</a> on Friday, December 26. Israel has been working around the clock with international and private aid organizations to ensure that the Palestinian civilians in Gaza are receving the food and medical supplies that they need.</p><p align="justify">On December 29 alone, Israel sent 63 trucks (1,545 tons) of humanitarian aid goods into the <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gazatoc.html">Gaza Strip</a> including rice, yeast, flour, sugar and 64 tons of medical supplies. On December 31, 98 trucks and 2,366 tons of food and supplies were delivered in Gaza. On January 5, 80 trucks delivered goods to the area. On January 6, 49 trucks were sent into Gaza by means of the humanitarian unit of the IDF. 100 trucks and 500,000 liters of diesel fuel were sent in through the Kerem Shalom crossing on January 7.</p><p align="justify">Additionally, hundreds of thousands of liters of diesel fuel were pumped into Gaza on January 6 including fuel for the Gaza power station, UN facilities and domestic cooking fuel.</p><p align="justify">On Monday, January 12, Israeli security forces at the Kerem Shalom crossing caught a truck trying to smuggle electronic equipment into Gaza including infra-red cameras and computers. Electric equipment is not considered part of humanitarian aid although Israel has allowed certain electronics into Gaza in order to correct the city's electricity grid. As of January 15, Gaza's power grid was at 74% working capacity, up from 40% at the beginning of the operation.</p><p align="justify">On January 14 an El Al jumbo plane filled with 100 tons of medical and food supplies from UNICEF landed at Ben Gurion airport.</p><p align="justify">On Thursday, January 15, 170 trucks of humanitarian aid as well as 195,000 liters of fuel were sent into the area and on January 16, 135 truckloads were delivered. On these days combined, 3,790 tons of supplies were sent into Gaza.</p><p align="justify">To view a live video of aid entering through the Kerem Shalom crossing please <a href="http://www.mod.gov.il/pages/general/Maavar_Kerem_Shalom.asp">click here</a></p><p align="center" class="style1" style="color: red; font-weight: bold; "> </p><p align="center" class="style1" style="color: red; font-weight: bold; ">Number of Trucks into Gaza (January 8, 2009)</p><p align="center"><img src="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/jsource/images/Gaza/aidgraph5.jpg" width="458" height="284" /></p><p align="center"><span class="style1" style=" font-weight: bold; color:red;">Number of Trucks<br />(January 6, 2009)<br /></span><img src="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/Gaza/aidgraph1.jpg" width="398" height="266" /></p><p align="justify">So many truckloads of aid have been sent in, in fact, that the World Food Programme took a two day recess from its food donations. The organization resumed its deliveries on Tuesday, January 6. The Gaza food warehouses are filled to capacity and are capable of lasting the citizens two weeks.</p><p align="center"><b><span class="style2" style=" ;color:red;">Humanitarian Aid - Organizations and Donors</span></b></p><p align="center"><img src="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/Gaza/aidgraph3.jpg" width="398" height="256" /></p><p align="justify">Despite many reports that Gaza’s citizens are getting enough aid from international sources, some UN officials claim that extreme food and medical supply shortages remain. The United Nations would like to blame Israel for the crisis but, yet again, the blame falls with <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hamastoc.html">Hamas</a>.</p><p align="justify">On January 6 it was discovered that <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hamastoc.html">Hamas</a> gunmen had opened their own hospital and were stealing a significant portion of medical supplies from the trucks that deliver humanitarian aid daily into Gaza. The medicine, of course, is intended for civilian hospitals and emergency medical care. By doing this Hamas is, yet again, denying its own civilian population the supplies that it desperately needs.</p><p align="justify">Similarly, Hamas gunmen are hiding themselves in civilian hospitals, particularly among the various maternity wards, attempting to find refuge from Israeli fire. This is just one more example showing that Hamas truly takes its people’s safety for granted.</p><p align="justify">For more on Hamas’s abuse of its citizens please see <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gazahumanshields.html">Hamas’s Human Shields</a></p><p align="justify">Although Israeli officials realize that Hamas is preventing aid supplies from reaching its intended point of delivery, on January 7 Israel began a “humanitarian recess” in which the <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/IDFtoc.html">IDF</a> and <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/iaftoc.html">IAF</a> would stop its operation for three hours daily so that Gaza’s citizens could safely go into the streets to collect food and medical goods. Hamas gunmen were the first on January 7 to end the temporary ceasefire, firing dozens of rockets at Israel’s southern towns. The Israeli-enforced humanitarian corridors have continued each day as scheduled despite Hamas's refusal to cease rocket fire on the western Negev during the three-hour ceasefire.</p><p align="justify">On January 15, Israel decided to lengthen its daily humanitarian recess to four hours instead of three in order to allow more Gazans to get the supplies that they need. The decision to increase the time span of the pause came from Israel Joint Humanitarian Coordination Center (JHCC).</p><p align="justify">The Israeli government is also allowing Palestinians from <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gazatoc.html">Gaza</a> to enter Israel for medical treatment. Dozens of wounded and sick Gazans have already been transported into Israel through the Erez Crossing and are now being treated at various Israeli hospitals.</p><p align="justify">Israel is encouraging more medical transfers but the <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/patoc.html">Palestinian Authority</a> is refusing to pay for the medical care because it feels Hamas is responsible for the injuries in Gaza.</p><p align="justify">Israel and the Red Cross have agreed that Israeli hospitals will absorb and treat for wounded Gazan civilians after the operation is over.</p><p align="justify">Meanwhile, <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Health/mda1.html">Magen David Adom</a>, Israel’s emergency ambulatory service, has been put on high alert and is operating 600 ambulances in Gaza to help any wounded or sick in the area.</p><p align="justify">On January 12, the Israeli government released official plans to build a field hospital inside the Gaza Strip to be run by the IDF Medical Corps in order to aid any Palestinian civilians wounded from the daily operations.</p><p align="justify">Foreign Minister <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/TLivni.html">Tzipi Livni</a> released a statement on January 4 saying: “We have opened the crossings more than ever in comparison to the past, in order to bridge the gaps in terms of humanitarian needs, with the understanding that a military operation is something that can affect the daily lives of the citizens...We want to work together with the international organizations to ease the lives of the population while we conduct an ongoing operation against Hamas.”</p><p align="justify">On Sunday, January 11, the Israel Defense Forces set up a humanitarian aid center in Tel Aviv in which officials from aid organizations can come to arrage supply transfers into Gaza. IDF officials, and representative from the <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/unrwatoc.html">UNRWA</a> and ICRC met on Sunday to reopen and reestablish rules of aid transfers which the UN had withheld for several days due to an accidental death of one of its truck drivers.</p><p align="justify">On January 15, Maj. Gen. Yoav Galant, head of the southern command, ordered that a special team be created in the south specifically to assist civilians in Gaza and to help them rebuild their lives in the area. The team will be made up of IDF troops and medical personnel as well as other administrative and logistical members.</p><p align="justify">Israel has made it clear that this operation is against <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hamastoc.html">Hamas</a> armed forces and terrorist cells - not Palestinian civilians. The <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/IDFtoc.html">Israel Defense Forces</a> is doing everything in their power to minimize the number of civilian casualties. The <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/IDFtoc.html">IDF</a> has gone so far as to call apartment complexes in the Gaza Strip that are known to house Hamas forces and warn the civilian residents of coming airstrikes, allowing them enough time to evacuate the buildings. These warnings are given despite the fact that they tip off Hamas operatives.</p><p align="justify">While the Arab world might like to deny it, the <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/IDFtoc.html">Israel Defense Forces</a> are conducting their operation in as humane a way as possible by both limiting civilian casualties and offering an extreme humanitarian aid effort in Gaza. Hamas, on the other hand, denies its own people aid and infringes on their security.</p><h3 align="justify" class="style3" style="color: maroon; font-weight: bold; ">Humanitarian Aid After the Operation</h3><p align="justify">As of January 18, 2009, Israel declared a unilateral ceasefire and began to move its troops out of the Gaza Strip. Since then, aid trucks continue to cross into Gaza from Israel.</p><p align="justify">Hamas was accused of hijacking aid trucks and selling its goods during Israel's operation. Directly following the ceasefire Hamas and Fatah leaders began to blame each other for food and medical shortages in the Strip. Hamas accused Fatah of stealing aid from trucks in order to sell goods on the black market as well as detaining trucks along the Rafah border so as to prevent Hamas from restrengthening itself in the area.</p><p align="justify">On January 19, Jordanian sources confirmed that Hamas gunmen hijacked 12 trucks on their way to UNRWA headquarters.</p><p align="justify">Tensions continued to rise as Hamas and Fatah both pled with the international community not to give money to the other organization. Hamas does not want to give Mahmoud Abbas more power and the PA wishes to retain Hamas's weakened state. The organizations are fighting for control of Gaza including the authority to rebuild the area's infrastructure.</p><p align="justify">Meanwhile, the medical clinic that Israel opened along the Erez border on January 18 remains empty. The treatment center is meant to assist 50 Palestinians at a time for wounds or other non-operation related illnesses. As of January 20, only seven Palestinian children came to the clinic for cancer treatments. The treatment center is stocked full with doctors and medical supplies as well as four ambulances but the Gazans are too afraid of Hamas forces to set foot inside or contact the Israeli-sponsored clinic. Doing so would be considered treason and Hamas operatives have been rapidly executing any Palestinian in Gaza who cooperates with Israel.</p><p align="justify">See also: <a href="http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001WZaBwiwuobBH2y8UIfEBiI-GiWxq7v2_5Ts0fBnfa5R-Ow2nIJBVyn3gRPfPRYBgnQ8379-u4jvBonMoE-WK18BjXe14K44sSuapdu_oYAsYLDjbFPAUvJ06cW-kUuucaQxd7Li1jkoHNRGF7b7JN8-60uY26aU_FXdl5dtXr5XPNmnea6HQJkMuboWnENuA">Humanitarian Aid Situation in the Gaza Strip</a> (Video: The Israel Embassy)</p></span></div><div><b>Here are some more photos of Gaza for your perusal and knowledge.</b></div><div><br /></div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhDhhCUGVhHhLg_rL-dDE1r9S06ZYLLwNyl3pWCFxlmZwevk98wqXm-oTp06EhqzlUhYkby310gkaiT_qT-iqy_tAFDjVtpEkw1uO9i51OQlVxmuMUz7ASUJtxrFwe51ZzJs2woKB9mXhW-/s1600/market+gaza1.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 200px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhDhhCUGVhHhLg_rL-dDE1r9S06ZYLLwNyl3pWCFxlmZwevk98wqXm-oTp06EhqzlUhYkby310gkaiT_qT-iqy_tAFDjVtpEkw1uO9i51OQlVxmuMUz7ASUJtxrFwe51ZzJs2woKB9mXhW-/s320/market+gaza1.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509057846401638914" /></a><div><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmgip7kS31dEq3xc294KqUjpiGp5ZKGJuOEjiKDnZgTZGdqXFLm9tqN7iWCCfiSESZSWvUKPO5mqDLGW6wZugpmRtush6KU91YLZ8e-_0SlWzspevwP9jFXWgid9uOuJzEO6IZid6eAkLt/s320/GazaGalleria.jpg" style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 214px;" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509057829802640994" /></div><div><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgnPwqBPzd47fHiiW4x_Ny6Z8GmbrgWjWFuX4xel2k-Vp6VUHJtcN62UbrS_j42UPDkGX6eGjKQieAoetYVHHD4CLkDzaBXEo3RNZVv1FxdcxqHwhgrFXzlFFue1_7aCQJQcLTJGk4ABfNx/s1600/gaza+market1.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgnPwqBPzd47fHiiW4x_Ny6Z8GmbrgWjWFuX4xel2k-Vp6VUHJtcN62UbrS_j42UPDkGX6eGjKQieAoetYVHHD4CLkDzaBXEo3RNZVv1FxdcxqHwhgrFXzlFFue1_7aCQJQcLTJGk4ABfNx/s320/gaza+market1.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509057824888125282" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnsbvaEACv55xMjvHR5VLo_K5Q4R5uP9QL8gc4xbnXFuYmo5wXLJWOHkqf-ni5konJgJGP0xlSVNEblkmWPMbeQ7s96bitSGFPNvVOapHokCG7RN-o9JbWe9xKef7uzY6qimo_4DLB7cUO/s1600/clothes+shop.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 215px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnsbvaEACv55xMjvHR5VLo_K5Q4R5uP9QL8gc4xbnXFuYmo5wXLJWOHkqf-ni5konJgJGP0xlSVNEblkmWPMbeQ7s96bitSGFPNvVOapHokCG7RN-o9JbWe9xKef7uzY6qimo_4DLB7cUO/s320/clothes+shop.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509057820676057506" /></a><br /><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiehzfVE70CDO1L6-LU4GVyU0gOtLGF9vPjPby2CCe0Ye1eM08af4JWq59WsrMw5RQFX6cHHLe30SsYiFeY4eYB8KxD2XuFDy-99sRXGpsXQsHVGEPsWz4cM9_r-Ed9MC4Q1pYwtQdz7H53/s1600/street4.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiehzfVE70CDO1L6-LU4GVyU0gOtLGF9vPjPby2CCe0Ye1eM08af4JWq59WsrMw5RQFX6cHHLe30SsYiFeY4eYB8KxD2XuFDy-99sRXGpsXQsHVGEPsWz4cM9_r-Ed9MC4Q1pYwtQdz7H53/s320/street4.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509056205235388018" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjEyHFwSY-biABBCdT6CTWhmG-5JLpMvpUqR_HFK0a01MpM6KXPzIdkrZkZWBe-1chC0AzkF2IPotuU4Am5JBEhlO7m0kdhAmqFbwtg6jgV2SNYu_FRmH7CFDd5RLmscDTe7-0wR7hhO_u4/s1600/rich+home2.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjEyHFwSY-biABBCdT6CTWhmG-5JLpMvpUqR_HFK0a01MpM6KXPzIdkrZkZWBe-1chC0AzkF2IPotuU4Am5JBEhlO7m0kdhAmqFbwtg6jgV2SNYu_FRmH7CFDd5RLmscDTe7-0wR7hhO_u4/s320/rich+home2.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509056198786600658" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiUPg2K5-OCq-lkY85uagFnu1xngcghZBJzyLtsmi2zR8_M_wFbIbljlpRN78DUjshmweyfZIpNMb0ma8CG-5KG4O8Q9qKVUlgXrajEgKv00PBW-wQNEo1ZWavTNuXkcirR3QKjafMjQOhu/s1600/restaurant+in+gaza.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 273px; height: 183px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiUPg2K5-OCq-lkY85uagFnu1xngcghZBJzyLtsmi2zR8_M_wFbIbljlpRN78DUjshmweyfZIpNMb0ma8CG-5KG4O8Q9qKVUlgXrajEgKv00PBW-wQNEo1ZWavTNuXkcirR3QKjafMjQOhu/s320/restaurant+in+gaza.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509056193402135522" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjWL9TsdFJrQV5offPRNmWNYKJt3HG8pD_PqDV9PO3s9I3av6q1ErL_DfiuAMPZnP4CTOqFEMAV1ZxaOJi139jXbFXfqyfOLO6ielKLtT52gVfMN83uCxMMxm0T2YrfmExgxoAm8THC3b6q/s1600/marina2.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 192px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjWL9TsdFJrQV5offPRNmWNYKJt3HG8pD_PqDV9PO3s9I3av6q1ErL_DfiuAMPZnP4CTOqFEMAV1ZxaOJi139jXbFXfqyfOLO6ielKLtT52gVfMN83uCxMMxm0T2YrfmExgxoAm8THC3b6q/s320/marina2.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509056183891628546" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3h9b5TH1i-f_oFw7bG5AhePEHxf-5_rl5MHirECqppgLGwBrxZy4MEp-ccK6z-pKJPda9XhXBm1dTFYFSj2SZbde2fW5WgjHrSOLD_xBRK2Fi1aYX3e3Kk9eud6dFyEekq_JOCkbYwS5z/s1600/building10.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 187px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3h9b5TH1i-f_oFw7bG5AhePEHxf-5_rl5MHirECqppgLGwBrxZy4MEp-ccK6z-pKJPda9XhXBm1dTFYFSj2SZbde2fW5WgjHrSOLD_xBRK2Fi1aYX3e3Kk9eud6dFyEekq_JOCkbYwS5z/s320/building10.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509056181512423618" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSSL-UbeyXYHqYvrDHr3uPjGnGb8pYmpDoL8RRe4BRg6BdRq6H-fNw5qgprVbOXhyphenhyphengT_exk7ByLe1xv5UKfvdC-Mj6sRZHVN2dIAqlmrpo27urHRcc8LNFMmJt6fDtw5uD7f721dkyBPnj/s1600/rich+home+gaza.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSSL-UbeyXYHqYvrDHr3uPjGnGb8pYmpDoL8RRe4BRg6BdRq6H-fNw5qgprVbOXhyphenhyphengT_exk7ByLe1xv5UKfvdC-Mj6sRZHVN2dIAqlmrpo27urHRcc8LNFMmJt6fDtw5uD7f721dkyBPnj/s320/rich+home+gaza.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055797124256386" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhl4jt9SJ2JIiXthBkSjN_BoO3fBVt7WWdB9WpahsCGKlaP-e-HgKnvUnWJTWPZKauCQbjJ_TYzNGug15Yzz2loPWxsBGZMCfbVRLxyCHndpywT6mxLTUc50wPxu753bZdPI2GH5VtmMEzW/s1600/marina+in+gaza.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhl4jt9SJ2JIiXthBkSjN_BoO3fBVt7WWdB9WpahsCGKlaP-e-HgKnvUnWJTWPZKauCQbjJ_TYzNGug15Yzz2loPWxsBGZMCfbVRLxyCHndpywT6mxLTUc50wPxu753bZdPI2GH5VtmMEzW/s320/marina+in+gaza.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055787249880402" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdS-s7VG9BychEyyPUfveRQySLxkPJfRaxDJtKwQJb-3wTmGsyWWj_BdJxP0YESYG2ZgFyvVHSGfWr6ISAS9i85EOXJZke60mr7QLzllbOhSfZB9SMF7BLWbxNv4b1bTIZV6UDKZ7hjHjU/s1600/Central+Library+Gaza.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdS-s7VG9BychEyyPUfveRQySLxkPJfRaxDJtKwQJb-3wTmGsyWWj_BdJxP0YESYG2ZgFyvVHSGfWr6ISAS9i85EOXJZke60mr7QLzllbOhSfZB9SMF7BLWbxNv4b1bTIZV6UDKZ7hjHjU/s320/Central+Library+Gaza.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055780758364786" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiBDm5-FDhjXg9edoMaKyyB3GrKq_7QINifIDU5VeuX42fBm5JZRpThGC9Towk3v1nkxHrzAL48hrv478y3hEJ4CZsY2zCk_Pl1jjWOZk-thk3OlTkjv7uAr5rbGj9K0RCBFeC08rS4uOed/s1600/building7.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 176px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiBDm5-FDhjXg9edoMaKyyB3GrKq_7QINifIDU5VeuX42fBm5JZRpThGC9Towk3v1nkxHrzAL48hrv478y3hEJ4CZsY2zCk_Pl1jjWOZk-thk3OlTkjv7uAr5rbGj9K0RCBFeC08rS4uOed/s320/building7.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055767566613154" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgnKdXWA4cnWBfQBFdLunVOiaAK7GEsqcRbTMNK0YU_8SacH7SjoGubCFR9T-yOwEI46gdfGyz38jcmPHGTNx9NQy0BNAYe6xyAdaM9dZ0amL_cozq4_OoK2dD8BTPCbs0ni7viiXxx9UL3/s1600/park+gaza.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 210px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgnKdXWA4cnWBfQBFdLunVOiaAK7GEsqcRbTMNK0YU_8SacH7SjoGubCFR9T-yOwEI46gdfGyz38jcmPHGTNx9NQy0BNAYe6xyAdaM9dZ0amL_cozq4_OoK2dD8BTPCbs0ni7viiXxx9UL3/s320/park+gaza.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055762559511042" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8RDMfgmTwb_O0FjpJxfx7MVy9d14T-lGhqcbjEXF7T2EkUiw5vAsOquYDxlDHPnhH_-RIu_65mz3sKshM4fEoAnJ9exK53433jYkPRxa_ZMnOwoENuXr6RkySZwDe81cSCgLuM6Fpd0c3/s1600/beach4.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 214px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8RDMfgmTwb_O0FjpJxfx7MVy9d14T-lGhqcbjEXF7T2EkUiw5vAsOquYDxlDHPnhH_-RIu_65mz3sKshM4fEoAnJ9exK53433jYkPRxa_ZMnOwoENuXr6RkySZwDe81cSCgLuM6Fpd0c3/s320/beach4.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055455387356258" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtijh8o4uipoxny7tMJeFBBDlhuZcdzWPfbQ2zeTMg3DB8Eje4YHMHLC4H__wa50x52te7zh3tEU-y8LvlyoptYoBYKarXfnCQLF8jDBrwmP0wGIa_Z3ne7PGAvogqL3bip8pd9zsGLkBj/s1600/beach3.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 228px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtijh8o4uipoxny7tMJeFBBDlhuZcdzWPfbQ2zeTMg3DB8Eje4YHMHLC4H__wa50x52te7zh3tEU-y8LvlyoptYoBYKarXfnCQLF8jDBrwmP0wGIa_Z3ne7PGAvogqL3bip8pd9zsGLkBj/s320/beach3.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055447426030594" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj8nlaTl3XWWr2FPcYMmV42CP0B_QoxZ10HYeuDqkBd-qOj9D95rtn2q_IXlj-S9EPWtkhdSv_BX2-1gBKYGbLcqWthoJjXfKV4OAWOBgO1Rn7mwGC5OfDz_zK7s6JsH05s7BPSzoiBtBtb/s1600/beach2.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj8nlaTl3XWWr2FPcYMmV42CP0B_QoxZ10HYeuDqkBd-qOj9D95rtn2q_IXlj-S9EPWtkhdSv_BX2-1gBKYGbLcqWthoJjXfKV4OAWOBgO1Rn7mwGC5OfDz_zK7s6JsH05s7BPSzoiBtBtb/s320/beach2.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055443856925458" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS5huEK5smLU3ypyGqHj_aPaPv5CCkl8DvjJY1A5Iusop5h_lymsNkm4yKkHWWOt6fncygYu2V5yts5qny_Q36h2iSp4ZEVB1z8WUeSoa8VKiUY3elR8HCgjzAZU2awjpTsufEueaJUpjE/s1600/beach.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS5huEK5smLU3ypyGqHj_aPaPv5CCkl8DvjJY1A5Iusop5h_lymsNkm4yKkHWWOt6fncygYu2V5yts5qny_Q36h2iSp4ZEVB1z8WUeSoa8VKiUY3elR8HCgjzAZU2awjpTsufEueaJUpjE/s320/beach.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509055259421998370" /></a><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB;mso-bidi-language:HE"><a href="http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226866">http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226866</a></span></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226790">http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226790</a></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226816">http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226816</a><o></o></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226841">http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11226841</a><o></o></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://archive.palestinephotobank.com/">http://archive.palestinephotobank.com/</a></p> <o></o> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Education-Palestinian-Arab-Education-Photos-Pictures/G0000BH12VGHDH7I/">http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Education-Palestinian-Arab-Education-Photos-Pictures/G0000BH12VGHDH7I/</a><o></o></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Gaza-Strip-Outdoor-Photos-of-Gaza-in-Palestine/G0000cddVV_cbLFs/">http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Gaza-Strip-Outdoor-Photos-of-Gaza-in-Palestine/G0000cddVV_cbLFs/</a><o></o></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Olive-Trees-Photos-Olives-olive-oil-olive-tree-pictures/G0000bsc3FsYL8nI/">http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Olive-Trees-Photos-Olives-olive-oil-olive-tree-pictures/G0000bsc3FsYL8nI/</a><o></o></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Kindergarten-Photos-Arab-Photographer-for-international-photo-commissions/G0000ZtMEi5ssOVk/">http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Kindergarten-Photos-Arab-Photographer-for-international-photo-commissions/G0000ZtMEi5ssOVk/</a><o></o></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Landscape-Photos-West-Bank-Jerusalem-Gaza-Pictures/G0000WDsKXlD5joY/">http://sabella.photoshelter.com/gallery/Landscape-Photos-West-Bank-Jerusalem-Gaza-Pictures/G0000WDsKXlD5joY/</a><o></o><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://travel.webshots.com/album/87099850TRCCIM">http://travel.webshots.com/album/87099850TRCCIM</a><o></o></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://www.travelpod.com/photos/0/Palestinian%20Territory/Gaza%20City.html">http://www.travelpod.com/photos/0/Palestinian%20Territory/Gaza%20City.html</a><o></o></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://www.sabellaphoto.com/gaza1.htm">http://www.sabellaphoto.com/gaza1.htm</a><o></o><o:p></o:p></p> <o></o><p></p> <o></o><p></p><p></p><p></p></div><div><br /></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-56404210435276291112010-05-14T07:54:00.000-07:002010-05-25T08:47:35.579-07:00The dishonourable Mr. Gavri Bargil and his treason of Israel<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgW6e34fkKGDBfG4J1m5J8mEsoLZDN8V4NLAv_kJhdTyKFCKXFPGIjjD5BnnKYm5hJv_VZD_A5mPPEEbDfKumHMBDLH3ihPBgkaOiAyL0vuDt70prEPFoM0iiKtys6zBoFAeOadFVR4MmYp/s1600/Bargil.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5471146159479796162" style="FLOAT: left; MARGIN: 0px 10px 10px 0px; WIDTH: 165px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 155px" alt="" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgW6e34fkKGDBfG4J1m5J8mEsoLZDN8V4NLAv_kJhdTyKFCKXFPGIjjD5BnnKYm5hJv_VZD_A5mPPEEbDfKumHMBDLH3ihPBgkaOiAyL0vuDt70prEPFoM0iiKtys6zBoFAeOadFVR4MmYp/s320/Bargil.jpg" border="0" /></a><br /><div></div><br /><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>The Israeli Embassy in London had invited Mr. Gavri Bargil to give a speech/conference/lecture/ at the LSE (London School of Economics) on 13th May 2010.</div><br /><div></div><br /><div>According to the information around (in the internet) "Mr. Bargil is or has been the Secretary General of the Kibbutz Movement since 2000. A member of Kibbutz Ramot Menashe, during the years 1996-1999 Bargil was the head shaliach (emissary) of the Kibbutz Artzi in North America. He previously served as the Executive Director of Peace Now and as a brigade commander holding the rank of lieutenant colonel. In 1994 Bargil received his M.A. in Political Science, from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem since June 2004."</div><br /><div></div><br /><div>My friend called me yesterday and told me about this speech that was going to take place at 18:00 at the LSE - Holborn - London. I got very excited and decided to come with her, as both of us were actually expecting to hear something refreshing from our beloved Eretz ha'kodesh.</div><br /><div></div><br /><div>We arrived a little early, but waited until Mr. Bargil arrived, which by the way was 30 minutes late. And since we were not informed that the room used for this spech would have to be vacated by 19:00, we were expecting a good flow of conversation.</div><br /><div></div><br /><div>There were only 10 of us there, including Mr. Bargil, who politely introduced himself, did not fail to mention <strong>over 15 times</strong> (during the mere 30 minutes) <strong>that he was working with Peace Now for the last 20 years</strong> (as if we did not hear the first time, and yes, I did count), and spent the remaining 30 minutes spouting an absurd and unsupported version of the Israeli people's opinions and even claimed to "know" the mentality of the Palestinians. I kid you not! </div><br /><div></div><br /><div>Ah, notwithstanding his complete disregard for Israel and her people, he also alleged to have spoken/and having been negotiating directly with the Palestinian leaders regarding a treaty for peace, although he failed to tell us the name of these Palestinian leaders he spoke to, failed to tell us what this "peace treaty" entailed both for the Israeli and the Palestinian people, and failed to tell us on whose authority he was negotiating. What he did instead, and very orchestrated at that, was to completely change the subject, behaving somewhat like some sort of politician. </div><br /><div></div><br /><div>Mr. Bargil, also gave a very disturbing, erroneous, biased, and very ignorant view of the situation not only in Israel but also in the Palestinian territories, made opinions that did not and do not reflect even 30% of the opinion of Israelis, and failed miserably to acknowledge modern and historical facts, such as the terminology PALESTINIAN being used to refer to JEWS, before the Arab invasion of our lands. In fact he looked quite puzzled when I reminded him of this detail.</div><br /><div></div>After the pathetic 30 minutes of his speech, I tried to approach him to ask him what he thinks will happen if his plan works, and we cut our minute land in half, giving away this half to our mortal enemies, the Muslim Palestinians, which are not really Palestinians, but Arabs from Syria, Iran, Libya, Egypt and Lebanon. Mr. Bargil simply replied that <b>he HOPED the Palestinians would "behave", and commit to their peace agreement. </b><div><br /></div><div>After that extremely naive and somewhat childish reply I was taken aback, repulsed and angry. </div><div><br /></div><div>I also asked Mr. Bargil if after this so-called peace deal, I would for example, be able to buy a house in Gaza. He looked astounded and surprised with my question, and in return questioned me why I would want to buy a house there. I said: "Maybe I may wish to live there, after all it will all be peaceful, no?" Then he said I could live there, but at my own risk, which clearly and doubtlessly means that it had all been a show. He could not have contradicted himself better than that. </div><div><br /></div><div>To my friend and I the message was clear; he is willing to allow Israel to be raped and plundered by the Arab Muslims. The very land that gave birth to him. </div><div><br /></div><div><b>I am also posting here below my friend's comments regarding the lecture:</b></div><div><br /></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>"We entered the lecture room early and found one student waiting the lecture. I asked him some questions about Mr Bargil, for instance, was he pro- or anti-Israel, what was his background. The student smiled and said Mr Bargil was pro-Israel, had served in the army as a commander and was now involved in Peace Now. As I personally do not believe Peace Now knows what it is doing and certainly has not contributed to peace of any kind, I became skeptical. Nevertheless I wanted to hear this man's views as he was an Israeli. The student also told us the Israeli embassy had encouraged the visit and asked him to find a room for him to speak. When I asked if the talk had been advertised, the young man told me "no". When I asked why, he could not tell me. </i></span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>We thought there was only going to be 3 people at this talk but eventually there were about 10, gathered it seems, in the last minutes before Mr Bargil arrived late. They all seemed to be Jewish students, one girl announced she was Spanish, but she appeared more arab.</i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>We did not realise we only had half an hour to listen and question Mr Bargil.</i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>Mr Bargil seemed confused and kept contradicting himself. Also he got annoyed with a question I asked him and nearly lost his temper. Having visited Israel and stayed on a kibbutz I was puzzled by the man's lack of forthrightness, clarity and enthusiasm about Israel. He did not answer any questions either me or my friend put to him directly; he was very vague and confused.</i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>His main point seemed to be that the "palestinians" were good partners for peace. When I mentioned that land-Gaza - had been given up for peace and no peace had ensued, he could not explain why. When I said that from my personal research I was convinced that Hamas and Fatah were both dedicated to the same end, ie pushing all Jews into the sea, all the students, barely 20 years old, all laughed patronisingly as if to say, "we know better". Mr Gavril was probably expecting to give is talk to a group of credulous, unthinking, programmed students. And he did but he was not expecting 2 people who refused to toe the propaganda line and wanted real answers to real questions.</i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>Unfortunately there was not enough time to question Mr Gavril on recent statements by Hamas about Fatah members joining them and the contents of the Hamas charter, the gathering of Hezbollah on Israel's northern border and their digging of tunnels there.</i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>If this was sanctioned by the Israeli embassy, I can only presume it was for propaganda purposes. They wanted to let, through LSE students, people know that Israel is committed to peace. Unfortunately, he proved convincingly and probably without intention, that Israel has without a doubt, no partners in their search for peace. </i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#000066;"><i>If this man was meant to show the intellectual power of the Israeli pro-peace discourse, he was a pathetic and abject failure."</i></span></div><div><br /></div><div>To us, Mr. Bargil sounded nothing but a traitor to his country and his people.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>-Morrigan-</b><br /><div></div><br /><div></div></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-8248859709092019432010-05-02T03:49:00.000-07:002010-05-02T04:10:18.671-07:00Fight Terror. Support Israel<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhea1AvJ6qaGhkSRzumZk12D0w_R1d5G5HdywGcdwjSmAFgkj89Ao6MoZFlZ5zSZ7zoValI88sr33hHG71KkUqB2v8VVtvTJnfWLsylI1H_Xjr6aNva0j-OmPYho02U5w0LVWT3NCdxqt6z/s1600/Judaica+Fight+Terror.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 200px; height: 199px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhea1AvJ6qaGhkSRzumZk12D0w_R1d5G5HdywGcdwjSmAFgkj89Ao6MoZFlZ5zSZ7zoValI88sr33hHG71KkUqB2v8VVtvTJnfWLsylI1H_Xjr6aNva0j-OmPYho02U5w0LVWT3NCdxqt6z/s320/Judaica+Fight+Terror.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5466628341738995890" /></a><br />By CAROLINE GLICK, The Jerusalem Post<br />April 30, 2010<br /><br /><br /><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>By using support for Israel as a wedge issue in the upcoming<br />elections, Republicans will do more than simply constrain Obama’s<br />ability to harm the Jewish state.<br /><br />Bipartisan support for Israel has been one of the greatest casualties<br />of US President Barack Obama’s assault on the Jewish state. Today, as<br />Republican support for Israel reaches new heights, support for Israel<br />has become a minority position among Democrats.<br /><br />Consider the numbers. During Operation Cast Lead 11 days before<br />Obama’s inauguration the House of Representatives passed Resolution<br />34 siding with Israel against Hamas. <b>The resolution received 390 yea<br />votes, five nay votes and 37 abstentions. Democrats cast four of the<br />nay votes and 29 of the abstentions.</b><br /><br />In November 2009, Congress passed House Resolution 867 condemning the<br />Goldstone Report. The resolution urged Obama to disregard its<br />findings, which falsely accused Israel of committing war crimes in<br />Cast Lead. A total of 344 congressman voted for the resolution.<br />Thirty-six voted against it. Fifty-two abstained. Among those voting<br />against, Thirty-three were Democrats. Forty-four Democrats abstained.<br /><br />In February 2010, Fifty-four congressmen sent a letter to Obama urging<br />him to pressure Israel to open Hamas-ruled Gaza’s international<br />borders and accusing Israel of engaging in collective punishment. <b>All<br />of them were Democrats.</b><br /><br />In the midst of the Obama administration’s assault on Israel over<br />construction for Jews in Jerusalem, 327 congressmen signed a letter to<br />Secretary of State Hillary Clinton calling for an end to the public<br />attacks on the Israeli government. Of the 102 members who refused to<br />sign the letter, 94 were Democrats.<br /><br />These numbers show two things. First, since Obama entered office there<br />has been a 13-point decline in the number of congressmen willing to<br />support Israel. Second, <b>the decrease comes entirely from the<br />Democratic side of the aisle. There the number of members willing to<br />attack Israel has tripled.</b><br /><br />As discouraging as they are, these numbers tell only part of the<br />story. The pro-Israel initiatives the remaining Democrats agree to<br />support today are less meaningful than those they supported before<br />Obama entered office.<br /><br />Resolution 34 during Cast Lead was substantive. It unhesitatingly<br />blamed Hamas for the conflict, supported Israel and asserted that<br />future wars will only be averted if Hamas is forced to fundamentally<br />change.<br /><br />Last month’s letter to Clinton was much more circumscribed. It focused<br />solely on ending the Obama administration’s very public assault on<br />Israel, and ignored the nature of that assault. At the insistence of<br />the Democrats, the administration was not criticized for its bigoted<br />demand that Jews not be allowed to construct new homes in Jewish<br />neighborhoods in Israel’s capital city.<br /><br />This week, Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat visited Washington. Reps. Eric<br />Cantor and Peter Roskam the Republican co-chairmen of the House’s<br />Israel caucus held a public event with Barkat where they voiced<br />strong support for Israel’s right to build in Jerusalem without<br />restrictions.<br /><br /><b>In contrast, their Democratic counterparts refused to meet publicly<br />with Barkat. They also refused to issue any statements supporting<br />Israel’s right to its undivided capital.</b><br /><br />In the midst of administration’s assault on Israel’s right to<br />Jerusalem last month, Representative Doug Lamborn drafted Resolution<br />1191 calling for the administration to finally abide by US law and<br />move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Lamborn gathered 18 co-sponsors for<br />the resolution. <b>All of them were Republican.</b><br /><br />THEN THERE is Iran. Acting on orders from Obama, House and Senate<br /><b>Democrats have removed from consideration the sanctions bills that<br />passed overwhelmingly in both houses. This week Obama asked<br />congressional Democrats to water down the sanctions bills to permit<br />him to exempt China and Russia. In so doing, Obama exposed the entire<br />push for sanctions as a dangerous, time-consuming joke.</b> No sanctions<br />passed in Congress or at the UN will make Iran reconsider its decision<br />to build a nuclear arsenal.<br /><br />This, of course, has been apparent for some time to anyone paying<br />attention. And recognizing this state of affairs in January, Lamborn<br />and Rep. Trent Franks authored a letter to Clinton and Defense<br />Secretary Robert Gates urging the administration <b>“to support Israel’s<br />sovereign right to take any action it feels compelled to make in its<br />self-defense.”</b><br /><br /><b>Their letter was signed by 22 other congressmen. All were Republican.</b><br /><br />Similarly, since November, Rep. Louie Gohmert has been working on a<br />resolution supporting Israel’s right to attack Iran’s nuclear<br />installations. <b>Gohmert’s resolution condemns Iran’s threat to commit<br />nuclear genocide against Israel and expresses “support for Israel’s<br />right to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear<br />threats posed by Iran, defend Israeli sovereignty, and protect the<br />lives and safety of the Israeli people, including the use of military<br />force if no other peaceful solution can be found within a reasonable<br />time.”</b><br /><br />To date, Gohmert has racked up more than 40 co-sponsors. <b>All are Republican.</b><br /><br />Recent opinion polls show that the Republican-Democrat divide on<br />Israel in Congress reflects a growing partisan gap among the general<br />public. A Gallup poll conducted in February showed that whereas 85<br />percent of Republicans support Israel (up from 77% in February 2009),<br />and 60% of Independents support Israel (up from 49% in February 2009),<br /><b>only 48% of Democrats support Israel, (down from 52% in February<br />2009).</b><br /><br />To date, both the Israeli government and AIPAC have denied the<br />existence of a partisan divide. This has been due in part to their<br />unwillingness to contend with the new situation. One of Israel’s<br />greatest assets in the US has been the fact that support for the<br />Jewish state has always been bipartisan. It is hard to accept that the<br />Democrats are jumping ship.<br /><br />AIPAC also has institutional reasons for papering over the erosion in<br />Democratic support for Israel. First, most of its members are<br />Democrats. Indeed, AIPAC’s new President Lee Rosenberg was one of<br />Obama’s biggest fund-raisers.<br /><br />Then, too, AIPAC is concerned at the prospect of its members<br />abandoning it for J Street. J Street, the Jewish pro-Palestinian<br />lobby, is strongly supported by the Obama administration.<br /><br />According to congressional sources, AIPAC’s desire to hide the<br />partisan divide has caused it to preemptively water down Republican<br />initiatives to gain Democratic support or torpedo Republican proposals<br />that the Democrats would oppose. For instance, an AIPAC lobbyist<br />demanded that Gohmert abandon his efforts to advance his resolution on<br />Iran. Sources close to the story say the AIPAC lobbyist told Gohmert<br />that AIPAC opposes all Iran initiatives that go beyond support for<br />sanctions.<br /><br />And now, of course, as Obama makes a mockery of AIPAC’s sanctions<br />drive by watering them down to nothingness, AIPAC’s sanctions-only<br />strategy lies in ruins. But, again in the interest of promoting the<br />fiction of bipartisan support for Israel, AIPAC can be expected to<br />pretend this has not happened.<br /><br />And many prominent Republican congressmen are loath to call its bluff.<br />Like the Israeli government itself, Republican House members express<br />deep concern that blowing the lid off the Democrats will weaken<br />Israel. As one member put it, “I don’t want to encourage the likes of<br />Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to attack Israel by exposing that the Democrats<br />don’t support Israel.”<br /><br />WHILE THIS argument has its merits,<b> the fact is that many Democrats<br />remain staunch supporters of Israel. Representatives like Shelley<br />Berkley, Nita Lowey, Steve Israel, Anthony Weiner, Jim Costa and many<br />others have not taken stronger stands in support Israel because,<br />thanks to AIPAC, they haven’t been challenged to do so.</b> If going into<br />the November midterm elections House Republicans were to initiate an<br />aggressively pro-Israel agenda as members like Lamborn, Franks,<br />Gohmert, Cantor, Roskam, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and others are already<br />doing, they would compel Democratic members to join them or risk being<br />criticized for abandoning Israel by their Republican opponents in<br />November’s elections.<br /><br /><b>And that’s the thing of it. While under Obama bipartisan support for<br />Israel has eroded, popular support for Israel has grown. </b>Indeed polls<br />show a direct correlation between Democratic abandonment of Israel and<br />popular abandonment of the Democrats. What this means is that the<br />partisan divide on Israel is a good election issue for Republicans.<br /><br /><b>If as projected Republicans retake control of the House of<br />Representatives in November, they will be in a position to limit<br />Obama’s ability to adopt policies that weaken Israel.</b> And due to the<br />widespread expectation that Republicans will in fact take over the<br />House, if the Republicans set out clear policy lines on Israel today,<br />their declared policies will immediately impact Obama’s maneuver room<br />on Israel. So, too, a clear Republican policy on Israel will motivate<br />pro-Israel Democrats to more stridently distance themselves from Obama<br />on issues related to Israel.<br /><br /><b>Take the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Salam Fayyad’s threat<br />that he will unilaterally declare Palestinian independence in August<br />2011</b>. To date, Obama has refused to say if he will recognize such a<br />unilaterally declared Palestinian state. Fearing that he may recognize<br />such a state, Israel has gone out of its way to appease Obama.<br /><br /><b>If House Republicans and Republican House candidates were to<br />collectively pledge to cut off US funding for the PA in the aftermath<br />of such a declaration, they could neutralize the threat. And if they<br />pledged not to fund a US embassy in such a Palestinian state, they<br />would make it impossible for Obama to continue holding his decision<br />over Israel’s head.</b><br /><br />As for Iran, if Republicans win the House, they will be in a position<br />to use omnibus budgetary bills to force the administration to provide<br />Israel with the military equipment necessary to win a war against Iran<br />and its allies. This would limit Obama’s capacity to threaten Israel<br />with an arms embargo in the increasingly likely event that the Iranian<br />axis attacks the Jewish state.<br /><br />In some House races, Democratic abandonment of Israel is already a key<br />issue. For instance, in Illinois, the race between Republican<br />challenger Joel Pollak and incumbent Democrat Jan Schakowsky has been<br />dominated by Schakowsky’s close ties to J Street and tepid support for<br />Israel. And recent polling data indicate that once a long-shot<br />candidate, Pollak is steadily closing in on Schakowsky’s lead.<br /><br /><b>Exposing the Democrats’ abandonment of Israel will be an unpleasant<br />affair. But it won’t add to the dangers arrayed against Israel.</b><br />Israel’s enemies are already aware of Obama’s animus towards the<br />Jewish state. Demonstrating that the Democrats on Capitol Hill are<br />following his lead on Israel will not add or detract from Iran’s<br />willingness to attack Israel either directly or through its Arab<br />proxies, or both.<br /><br />Moreover, forcing Democrats to account for their behavior will have a<br />salutary long-term effect on their party and on the US as a whole.<br />Support for Israel is a benchmark for support for US allies generally.<br />Obama’s abandonment of Israel has gone hand in hand with the cold<br />shoulder he has given Colombia, Honduras, Britain, Poland, the Czech<br />Republic, Japan, South Korea and other key US allies worldwide. In the<br />long-term, it will be catastrophic if one of the US’s two political<br />parties maintains this strategically disastrous policy.<br /><br />By using support for Israel as a wedge issue in the upcoming<br />elections, Republicans will do more than simply constrain Obama’s<br />ability to harm the Jewish state. They will be setting a course for a<br />Democratic return to strategic sanity in the years to come. And<br />nothing will guarantee the return of bipartisan support for Israel<br />more effectively and securely than that.<br /><div>________________________________</div><div><br /></div><div>FIGHT TERROR.</div><div>SUPPORT ISRAEL!</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-13411082614699446952010-04-25T10:20:00.000-07:002010-08-24T13:05:54.453-07:00Melek Taus - The Peacock God of the Yazid<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmd_YH7voP_i4yaalfzD9-nfJYIcd9snTTnfK6V0pX-znmSdYDxKw9dcQJkNG6yO6YHu7MWyFdqTRAy0RAcX3JdnAFGyYT9r8KjOqKTqVIIUxBMArUaoQsAg40zKb7qLigOGMZTNEXV4dy/s1600/Melek_taus.png"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 220px; height: 221px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmd_YH7voP_i4yaalfzD9-nfJYIcd9snTTnfK6V0pX-znmSdYDxKw9dcQJkNG6yO6YHu7MWyFdqTRAy0RAcX3JdnAFGyYT9r8KjOqKTqVIIUxBMArUaoQsAg40zKb7qLigOGMZTNEXV4dy/s320/Melek_taus.png" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5464127760459882322" /></a><br /><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;"><br /></span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;"><b><br /></b></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;"><b>Qu'ret al-Yezid</b></span><b><br /></b><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><b>Revelation of Melek Ta'us</b></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-weight: 800; line-height: 24px; font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; line-height: normal; "><p style="margin-left: 120px; margin-right: 120px; line-height: 1.5; display: inline !important; "><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:100%;"><b><i><br /></i></b></span></p></span></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-weight: 800; line-height: 24px; font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold; line-height: normal; "><p style="margin-left: 120px; margin-right: 120px; line-height: 1.5; display: inline !important; "><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:100%;"><b><i><br /></i></b></span></p></span></i></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-weight: 800; font-family:Verdana, Arial;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px;"><p style="margin-right: 94.95pt; margin-left: 94.95pt; display: inline !important; "><b><span style="Adobe Garamond Pro";mso-bidi- font-family:Andalus;font-size:14.0pt;color:blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; font-family:verdana;font-size:19px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: 800; line-height: 24px; font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal; line-height: normal; font-size:16px;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px;"></span></i></span></i></span></span></span></span></span></span></b></p><b><span style="Adobe Garamond Pro";mso-bidi- font-family:Andalus;font-size:14.0pt;color:blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><i><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px;"><p style="margin-right: 94.95pt; margin-left: 94.95pt; display: inline !important; "><b><span style="Adobe Garamond Pro";mso-bidi- font-family:Andalus;font-size:14.0pt;color:blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; font-family:verdana;font-size:19px;"><br /></span></span></span></span></b></p></span></i></i></span></span></span></span></b></span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px;"><b><span style="font-family:"Adobe Garamond Pro";mso-bidi- font-family:Andalus;font-size:14.0pt;color:blue;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><i></i></span></span></span></span></b><p></p></span></i></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:verdana;font-size:6;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:19px;"><br /></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:verdana;font-size:6;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:19px;"><br /></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:verdana;font-size:6;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:19px;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height: normal"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;">Melek Taus, the <b>"Peacock Angel"</b>, is the god of the Yazidis.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height: normal"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><br /></span></p></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:verdana;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 18pt; "><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;">The Yazidis consider <b>Tawûsê Melek</b> an emanation of God and a benevolent angel who has redeemed himself from his fall and has become a demiurge who created the cosmos frothe Cosmic Egg. After he repented, he wept for 7000 years, his tears filling seven jars, which then quenched the fires of Hell.<o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 18pt; "><i><span style=" mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi- mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;">Melek</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"> was borrowed from the Arabic term "king" or "angel". In Hebrew, Melekh is King, and Malakh is Angel. Tawus is uncontroversially translated "peacock"; in art and sculpture, Melek Taus is depicted as peacock. However, peacocks are not native to the lands where he is worshipped.<o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 18pt; "><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;">The Yazidi believe that the founder of their religion, Sheikh Adi Ibn Musafir, was an avatar of Melek Taus.<o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 18pt; "><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;">Some people identify Melek Taus as Lucifer, or Satan. The Yazidis do not utter such blasphemy, as it is quite offensive to them to equate Melek Taus with evil. He is an Angel and this is how the Yazidis see him.<o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">In the Islamic scheme of things, he is called <b>Iblis or Eblis</b> (the Calumniator or the Liar), and is considered to be the Prince of Darkness, himself. <b>Azazel</b>, by whatever name he might be called, is also often characterized as a 'Sovereign of the World' - kabalistically being a reflection in the Kingdom of Malkuth, of God in Kether. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">In African Islamic traditions, he is known as Zeraili, the angel of death. <b>The thorny acacia bush is sacred to Azazel, according to Arab tribes.</b> His name is pre-Jewish and pre-Islamic. Some speculate that he may have been an early Semitic goat god whose worship later became repulsive to the Jewish and Islamic faiths. <b>Angra Mainyu is Azazel's Zoroastrian counterpart. </b>Andrew Collins, of "From the Ashes of Angels" fame, postulates that Azazel was most likely a powerful goat-shaman.</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">Whatever he was, he was the Master of Metals and Minerals. In "Genesis of the Grail Kings", Laurence Gardner says this: "It is said in Enoch that Azazel made known to men 'all the metals and the art of working them...and the use of antimony' (otherwise known as stibium [Sb] Element No. 51). </span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;"><b>This is an essential ingredient of the preparatory alchemical process when producing the Philosopher's Stone. In the ancient Arab world antimony was called kuhl (or kohl). The related word, 'alcohol' stems from the Arabic al-kuhul</b>, the highly refined Philosophical Mercury prepared from spirits of wine rectified over antimony" [which is, btw, extremely poisonous and related to arsenic].</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">According to Sir Roger Bacon, when processed in vitriol (a potent cocktail<br />of Alum, Ammonium Chloride, Sodium Nitrate or saltpetre, and a few<br />other choice materials) the antimony - a white to silver coloured ore - will be reduced to a <b>'noble red oil'</b>. "Yes, many say, that when one prepares Stibium to a glass, then the evil volatile Sulphur will be gone, and the Oil, which may be prepared from the glass, would be a very fixed oil, and would then truly give an ingress and Medicine of imperfect metals to perfection." </span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">Thus, the colour red is associated with Azazel as the Master of this most critical alchemical element.. According to traditions in the Middle East, the clay of the earth is red and from it was made man. As the Sovereign of the World of Man, red is again associated with him.</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;"><b>It is interesting that Enoch notes the use of antimony for the purposes of 'beautifying the eyelids'</b>, when this sulphide clearly has much more important uses and properties. It is as if we were left a clue that Azazel was an alchemist by the mere mention of the fact that part of his mastery was over this particular element. Metallurgy is also related to alchemy in that many metals and metallic salts are used in these most ancient arts. </span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">The alchemist must forge his gold from basal leads in fire, the same as a smith who produces weapons, goblets, bowls, shields, mirrors and jewellery from ores. Azazel has also been identified with Tubal-Cain, Vulcan, and Thoth due to his mastery of metals and great knowledge.</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">Antimony is one of these basal leads alchemists use and is often referred to as the White Lead.One of The alchemical symbols for antimony are:</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;"><br /></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;"><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEir-MqX33-i-N1gLrtmW-JLql_2qCICpwwoop5q3hyzTFpl2iIMFLHR9DKXU_fvTocSfgxhgi3skCA-AyEt1UEIqUxiHA9eNTGvtFfMNCpT713jraNV4foXJDCE2sH9GyrI6p5IaciWi7Nx/s320/antimony.jpg" /></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;"><br /></span></i></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">These and other alchemical symbols are painted on his robe.</span></i></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">The following is the Melek Taus legend from "From the Ashes of Angels":</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">"Yet chief among the Yezidi angels was a unique and very important figure<br />indeed. His name was, and still is (for the Yezidis still exist), Melek Taus,<br />the Peacock Angel. He corresponds with the Judeo-Christian concept of<br />the Evil One - Satan or Lucifer - but this association hardly does him justice, for Melek Taus is seen as a supreme being, with authority over worldly affairs. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">To these people he was the creator of the material world, which he made from the scattered pieces of an original cosmic egg, or pearl, inside which his spirit had previously resided.</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 14.25pt; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">"According to one Yezidi text known as the Mes'haf i Resh, or 'the Black Book'- the contents of which were entirely unknown to Europeans in Layard's time -it reveals that:</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 24px; "> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:#333399;">In the beginning God (Kurdish Khuda) created the White Pearl out of his<br />most precious Essence; and He created a bird named Anfar. And He placed the pearl upon its back, and dwelt thereon forty thousand years. On the first day [of creation], Sunday, He created an angel called Azazil, which is MelekTaus, the chief of all [angels]." ~ pg. 170 'The Peacock Angel'.</span></i><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-language:EN-GBfont-family:Calibri;font-size:14.0pt;color:black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: 800; line-height: 24px; font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19px; font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><p></p>****************************</span></i></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: 800; line-height: 24px; font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19px; font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" ;font-size:16px;"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:large;"><br /></span></b></span></span></i></span></span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: 800; line-height: 24px; font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19px; font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" ;font-size:16px;"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:large;">The Black Book</span></b></span></span></i></span></span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 19px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:large;"><br /></span></span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 19px; "><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:large;"><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">In the beginning The Invisible One brought forth from its own precious soul a white pearl.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And It created a bird upon whose back It placed the pearl, and there He</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">dwelt for forty thousand years.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Then on the first day, Sunday, It created an angel called Izrael.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">He is Archangel over all the Angels, he who is Melek Taus, the Peacock Angel.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">He is the first to be, and to know that He is; for the One can know nothing.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">On each of the other Days of the week the One brought forth Angels to serve Melek Taus.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">After this, the Invisible One retreated into Itself, and acted no more; but Melek Taus was left to</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">act.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Seeing the barrenness of the ether, He created the form of the seven heavens, the earth,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">sun and moon.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">He created mankind, animals, birds and beasts in the pockets of his cloak.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Then He brought man up from the pearl accompanied by angels.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">He gave a great shout before the pearl, after which it split into four pieces.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">He made water flow from its inside, and that water became the sea.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The Black Book</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">After that He created a ship in which He rode thirty thousand years,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">After which Melek Taus came and lived among men in the city of Lâlish,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Where His temple remains to this day.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">He lifted up His voice and the sea became solid and became the earth.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Then Melek Taus brought two pieces of the white pearl.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">He placed one below the earth and the other He placed at the door of heaven.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Then he placed in both of them the sun and the moon.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">From the scattered fragments of the white pearl He created</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">the stars which He suspended in the sky for decoration.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And He created fruit trees and plants on land and</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">mountains to beautify the earth.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And He created a throne upon a throne.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Then the Great Lord, Melek Taus, said to the angels, "I want to</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">create Adam and Eve and make them give rise to</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">mankind. Of the seed of Adam there shall be born a Prophet,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">and from him shall descend a people on the earth;</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">then the people of Me, Melek Taus,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">and these people are to be the Yezidis."</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And it was so!</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><div style="text-align: center;">Revelation of Melek Taus</div><div style="text-align: center;">(Qu'ret al-Yezid)</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">(fragmentary; lost parts marked with brackets)</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Wherefore, it is true that My knowledge compasses the very Truth of all that Is,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And My wisdom is not separate from My heart,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And the Manifestation of My descent is clear unto you,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And when it is Revealed to the Children of Adam it will be seen [.......................]</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And many will tremble thereby.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">All habitations and desert spaces are indeed of My own creation, set forth,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">All fully within My strength, not that of the false gods;</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Wherefore I am He that men come with their rightful worship,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Not the false gods of their books, wrongly written;</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">But they come to know Me, a Peacock of bronze and of gold,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Wings spread over Kaaba and Temple and Church, not to be overshadowed.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And in the secret cave of My wisdom it is known that there is no God but Myself,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Archangel over all the Host, Melek Ta'us.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Knowing this, who dares deny?</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Knowing this, who dares fail to worship?</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">[........................]</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Knowing this, who dares worship false gods of Koran and Bible?</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Knowing this, who shall make that [...............................]?</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Know that who knows Me will I cast into Paradisical gardens of My pleasure!</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">But the Yezid who knows Me not will I cast into affliction.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Say then, I am the only and exalted Archangel;</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And I make prosperous whom I will, and I enliven whom I will.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Say then, I alone am to be praised from the Towers of Lalish,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And from the Mountain of Ararat to the Western Sea.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Say then, Let the Light of Knowledge flash forth from the Ziarahs,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Flash forth from the river of Euphrates to the hiddenness of Schambhallah.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Let My sanjak be carried from its safe place into the Temple,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And let all the clans of Yezid know of My Manifestation,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Even Sheikan, and Sinjar, and Haliteyeh, and Malliyeh, and Lepcho,</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">And the Kotchar who wander among the heathen.</span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><br /></span></span></div><div style="text-align: center;">Meshaf Resh: The Black Book</div><div style="text-align: center;">Alternate</div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><br /></span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><br /></span></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><div style="text-align: left;">In the beginning God created the White Pearl out of His most precious Essence; and</div><div style="text-align: left;">He created a bird named Anfar. And He placed the pearl upon its back, and dwelt</div><div style="text-align: left;">thereon forty thousand years.</div><div style="text-align: left;">On the first day, Sunday, He created an angel named 'Azazil, which is Ta'us Melek</div><div style="text-align: left;">("the Peacock Angel"), the chief of all.</div><div style="text-align: left;">On Monday He created Darda'il, which is Sheikh Hasan.</div><div style="text-align: left;">On Tuesday he created Israfil, who is Sheikh Shams.</div><div style="text-align: left;">On Wednesday He created Jibra'il (Gabriel), who is Sheikh Abu Bekr.</div><div style="text-align: left;">On Thursday He created 'Azra'il, who is Sajadin.</div><div style="text-align: left;">On Friday He created the angel Shemna'il, who is Nasiru'd-Din.</div><div style="text-align: left;">On Saturday He created the angel Nura'il, who is [...] He made Melek Ta'us chief over</div><div style="text-align: left;">them.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">Afterwards he created the form of the seven heavens, and the earth, and the sun, and</div><div style="text-align: left;">the moon [...] He created mankind, and animals, and birds, and beasts, and placed</div><div style="text-align: left;">them in the folds of His mantle, and arose from the Pearl, accompanied by the angels.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then He cried out at the Pearl with a loud cry, and forthwith it fell asunder into four</div><div style="text-align: left;">pieces, and water gushed out from it and became the sea. The world was round</div><div style="text-align: left;">without clefts.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then He created Gabriel in the form of a bird, and committed to his hands the</div><div style="text-align: left;">deposition of the four corners. Then He created a ship and abode therein thirty</div><div style="text-align: left;">thousand years, after which He came and dwelt in Lalesh. He cried out in the world,</div><div style="text-align: left;">and the sea coagulated, and the world became earth and they continued quivering.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then He commanded Gabriel to take two of the pieces of the White Pearl, one of</div><div style="text-align: left;">which He placed under the earth, while the other rested in the Gate of Heaven. Then</div><div style="text-align: left;">He placed in them the sun and the moon, and created the stars from their fragments,</div><div style="text-align: left;">and suspended them in heaven for an ornament. He also created fruit-bearing trees</div><div style="text-align: left;">and plants in the earth, and likewise the mountains, to embellish the earth. He created</div><div style="text-align: left;">the Throne over the Carpet.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">Then said the Mighty Lord, "O Angels, I will create Adam and Eve, and will make</div><div style="text-align: left;">them human beings, and from them two shall arise, out of the loins of Adam, Shehr</div><div style="text-align: left;">ibn Jebr; and from him shall arise a single people on the earth, the people of 'Azazel,</div><div style="text-align: left;">to wit of Ta'us Melek, which is the Yezidi people. Then I shall send Sheikh 'Adi b.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Musafir from the land of Syria, and he shall come and dwell in Lalesh".</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then the Lord descended to the holy land and commanded Gabriel to take earth from</div><div style="text-align: left;">the four corners of the world: earth, air, fire and water. He made it man, and endowed</div><div style="text-align: left;">it with a soul by His power. Then He commanded Gabriel to place Adam in Paradise,</div><div style="text-align: left;">where he might eat of the fruit of every green herb, only of wheat should he not eat.</div><div style="text-align: left;">After a hundred years Ta'us Melek said to God, "How shall Adam increase and</div><div style="text-align: left;">multiply, and where is his offspring?" God said to him, "Into thy hand have I</div><div style="text-align: left;">surrendered authority and administration". Then he came and said to Adam, "Hast</div><div style="text-align: left;">thou eaten of the wheat?" He answered, "No, for God hath forbidden me so to do, and</div><div style="text-align: left;">hath said, 'Thou shalt not eat of it'". Melek Ta'us said to him, "If you eat of it, all shall</div><div style="text-align: left;">go better with thee". But, after he had eaten, his belly swelled up, and Ta'us Melek</div><div style="text-align: left;">drove him forth from Paradise, and left him, and ascended into heaven. Then Adam</div><div style="text-align: left;">suffered from the distention of his belly, because it had no outlet. But God sent a bird,</div><div style="text-align: left;">which came and helped him, and made an outlet for it, and he was relieved. And</div><div style="text-align: left;">Gabriel continued absent from him for a hundred years, and he was sad, and wept.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then God commanded Gabriel, and he came and created Eve from under Adam's left</div><div style="text-align: left;">arm-pit.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">Then Melek Ta'us descended to earth for the sake of our people- I mean the muchsuffering</div><div style="text-align: left;">Yezidis- and raised up for us kings beside the kings of the ancient</div><div style="text-align: left;">Assyrians, Nesrukh (who is Nasiru'd-Din) and Kamush (who is King Fakhru'd-Din)</div><div style="text-align: left;">and Artimus (who is King Shamsu'd-Din). And after this we had two kings, the first</div><div style="text-align: left;">and second Shapur, whose rule lasted one hundred and fifty years, and from whose</div><div style="text-align: left;">seed are our Amirs until the present day; and we became divided into four Septs.</div><div style="text-align: left;">To us it is forbidden to eat lettuce (khass) - because its name resembles that of our</div><div style="text-align: left;">prophetess Khassa - and haricot beans; also to use dark blue dye; neither do we eat</div><div style="text-align: left;">fish, out of respect for Jonah the prophet; nor gazelles, because these constituted the</div><div style="text-align: left;">flock of one of our prophets. The Sheik and his disciples, moreover, eat not the flesh</div><div style="text-align: left;">of the cock, out of respect for the peacock; for it is one of the seven gods before</div><div style="text-align: left;">mentioned, and his image is in the form of a cock. The Sheikh and his disciples</div><div style="text-align: left;">likewise abstain from eating pumpkin. It is, moreover, forbidden to us to make water</div><div style="text-align: left;">standing, or to put on out clothes sitting, or to cleanse ourselves in the privy as do the</div><div style="text-align: left;">Mohammedans, or to perform our ablutions in their baths. Neither is it permitted to us</div><div style="text-align: left;">to pronounce the name of Shaitan (because it is the name of our God), nor any name</div><div style="text-align: left;">resembling this, such as Kitan, Sharr, Shatt; nor any vocable resembling mal'un, [...],</div><div style="text-align: left;">na'l, or the like. Before [...] our religion was called idolatry: and the Jews, Christians,</div><div style="text-align: left;">Muslims and Persians held aloof from our religion. King Ahab and Amran were of us,</div><div style="text-align: left;">so that they used to call the God of Ahab Beelzebub, whom they call amongst us Pirbub.</div><div style="text-align: left;">We had a king in Babel whose name was Bukhti-Nossor (Nebuchadnezzer), and</div><div style="text-align: left;">Ahasuerus in Persia, and in Constantinople Aghriqalus. Before heaven and earth</div><div style="text-align: left;">existed, God was over the waters in a vessel in the midst of the waters.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then He was wroth with the Pearl which he had created, wherefore he cast it away:</div><div style="text-align: left;">and from the crash of it were produced the mountains, and from the clang of it the</div><div style="text-align: left;">sand-hills, and from its smoke the heavens. Then God ascended into heaven, and</div><div style="text-align: left;">condensed the heavens, and fixed them without supports, and enclosed the earth.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then He took the pen in His hands, and began to write down the names of all his</div><div style="text-align: left;">creatures. From His essence and light He created six gods, whose creation was as one</div><div style="text-align: left;">lighteth a lamp from another lamp.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Then said the first god to the second god, "I have created heaven; ascend thou into it,</div><div style="text-align: left;">and create something else." And when he ascended, the sun came into being. And he</div><div style="text-align: left;">said to the next, "Ascend!", and the moon came into being. And the third put the</div><div style="text-align: left;">heavens in movement, and the fourth created the stars, and the fifth created el-Kuragh</div><div style="text-align: left;">- that is to say, the Morning Star; and so on.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Kitab el-Jelwa: The Book Of Revelation</div><div style="text-align: left;">Melek Ta'us existed before all creatures. He sent his servant into this world to warn</div><div style="text-align: left;">and separate his chosen people from error: first by oral tradition, secondly by this by</div><div style="text-align: left;">this book Jilwa, which is not permitted to strangers to read or to look upon.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>First Section</b></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">I was, and am now, and will continue unto eternity, ruling over all creatures and</div><div style="text-align: left;">ordering the affairs and deeds of those who are under my sway. I am presently at hand</div><div style="text-align: left;">to such as trust in me and call upon me in time of need, neither is there any place void</div><div style="text-align: left;">of me where I am not present.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I am concerned in all those events which strangers name evils because they are not</div><div style="text-align: left;">done according to their desire. Every age has a Regent, and this by my counsel. Every</div><div style="text-align: left;">generation changes with the Chief of this World, so that each one of the chiefs in his</div><div style="text-align: left;">turn and cycle fulfills his charge. I grant indulgence according to the just merits of</div><div style="text-align: left;">those qualities wherewith each disposition is by nature endowed. He who opposeth</div><div style="text-align: left;">me shall have regrets and be grieved. The other gods may not interfere in my</div><div style="text-align: left;">businessand work: whatsoever I determine, that is.</div><div style="text-align: left;">The Scriptures which are in the hands of strangers, even though they were written by</div><div style="text-align: left;">prophets and apostles, yet have these turned aside, and rebelled, and perverted them;</div><div style="text-align: left;">and each one of them confuteth the other and abrogateth it. Truth and Falsehood are</div><div style="text-align: left;">distinguished by proving them at the time of their appearance. I will fulfill my</div><div style="text-align: left;">promise to those who put their trust in me, and will perform my covenant, or will act</div><div style="text-align: left;">contrary to it, according to the judgment of those wise and discerning Regents to</div><div style="text-align: left;">whom I have delegated my authority for determinate periods. I take notes of all</div><div style="text-align: left;">affairs, and promote the performance of what is useful in its due time. I direct and</div><div style="text-align: left;">teach such as will follow my teaching, who find in their accord with me joy and</div><div style="text-align: left;">delight greater than any joy wherewith the soul rejoiceth.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">I reward and I punish this progeny of Adam in all different ways of which I have</div><div style="text-align: left;">knowledge. In this my hand is the control of earth and what is above it and beneath it.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I undertake not the assistance of other races, neither do I withhold good from them;</div><div style="text-align: left;">much less do I grudge it to those who are my chosen people and obedient servants. I</div><div style="text-align: left;">surrender active control into the hands of those whom I have proved, who are, in</div><div style="text-align: left;">accordance with my will, friends in some shape and fashion to such as are faithful and</div><div style="text-align: left;">abide by my counsel. I take and I give; I make rich and I make poor; I make happy</div><div style="text-align: left;">and I make wretched, according to environments and seasons, and there is none who</div><div style="text-align: left;">hath the right to interfere, or to withdraw any man from my control. I draw down</div><div style="text-align: left;">pains and sicknesses upon such as strive to thwart me. He who is accounted mine,</div><div style="text-align: left;">dieth not like other men. I suffer no man to dwell in this lower world for more than</div><div style="text-align: left;">the period determined by me; and, if I wish, I send him back into this world a second</div><div style="text-align: left;">and a third time, or more, by the transmigration of the soul, and this by a universal</div><div style="text-align: left;">law.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">I guide without a scripture; I point the way by unseen means unto my friends and such</div><div style="text-align: left;">as observe the precepts of my teaching, which is not grievous, and is adapted to the</div><div style="text-align: left;">time and conditions. I punish such as contravene my laws in other worlds. The</div><div style="text-align: left;">children of this Adam know not those things which are determined, wherefore they</div><div style="text-align: left;">oft-times fall into error. The beasts of the field, and of heaven, and the fish of the</div><div style="text-align: left;">sea,all of them are in my hand and under my control. The treasures and hoards buried</div><div style="text-align: left;">in the heart of the earth are known to me, and I cause one after another to inherit</div><div style="text-align: left;">them. I make manifest my signs and wonders to such as will receive them and seek</div><div style="text-align: left;">them from me in their due season.</div><div style="text-align: left;">The antagonism and opposition of strangers to me and my followers do but injure the</div><div style="text-align: left;">authors thereof, because they know not that might and wealth are in my hands, and</div><div style="text-align: left;">that I bestow them on such of Adam's progeny as are deserving of them. The ordering</div><div style="text-align: left;">of the worlds, the revolution of ages, and the changing of their regents are mine from</div><div style="text-align: left;">eternity. And whosoever walketh not uprightly therein, him I will chastise in my own</div><div style="text-align: left;">appointed tie, and turn back to his former charge.</div><div style="text-align: left;">The seasons are four, and the elements are four; these have I vouchsafed to meet the</div><div style="text-align: left;">needs of my creatures. The scriptures of strangers are accepted by me in so far as they</div><div style="text-align: left;">accord and agree with my ordinances and run not counter to them; for they have been</div><div style="text-align: left;">for the most part perverted.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">Three there are opposed to me, and three names do I hate. To such as keep my secrets</div><div style="text-align: left;">shall my promises be fulfilled. All those who have undergone tribulations for my</div><div style="text-align: left;">sake, will I recompense without fail in one of the worlds. I desire all my followers to</div><div style="text-align: left;">be united in one fold on account of those who are antagonists and strangers to them.</div><div style="text-align: left;">O ye who observe my injunctions, reject such sayings and teachings as are not from</div><div style="text-align: left;">me. Mention not my name or my attributes, as strangers do, lest ye be guilty of sin,</div><div style="text-align: left;">for ye have no knowledge thereof.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>Fifth Section</b></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">Honor my symbol and image, for it will remind you of what ye have neglected of my</div><div style="text-align: left;">laws and ordinances. Be obedient to my servants and listen to what they communicate</div><div style="text-align: left;">to you of that knowledge of the unseen which they receive from me.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">THE HYMN OF SHEIKH ADI</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">My understanding surround the truth of things,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And my truth is mixed up in me.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And the truth of my descent is set forth by itself;</div><div style="text-align: left;">And when it was known it was altogether in me.</div><div style="text-align: left;">All who are in the universe are under me,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And all the habitable parts and the deserts,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And every thing created is under me.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am the ruling power, preceding all that exists.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who spake a true saying.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am the just judge, and the ruler of the earth.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he whom men worship in my glory,</div><div style="text-align: left;">Coming to me and kissing my feet.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who spread over the heavens their height.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who cried in the beginning,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am the Sheikh, the one and only one.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who of myself revealeth all things.</div><div style="text-align: left;">For I am he to whom came the book of glad tidings,</div><div style="text-align: left;">From my Lord who burneth the mountains.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he to whom all created men come,</div><div style="text-align: left;">In obedience to kiss my feet.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I bring forth fruit from the first juice of early youth,</div><div style="text-align: left;">By my presence; and turn towards me my disciples.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And before his light the darkness of the morning cleared away.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I guide him who asketh for guidance.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he that caused Adam to dwell in Paradise,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And Nimrod to inhabit a hot burning fire.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who guided Ahmed the Just,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And let him into my path and way.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he unto whom all creatures</div><div style="text-align: left;">Come unto for my good purposes and gifts.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who visited all the heights,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And goodness and charity proceed from my mercy.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who made all hearts to fear my purpose,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And they magnified the power and majesty of my awfulness.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he to whom the destroying lion came,</div><div style="text-align: left;">Raging, and I shouted against him and he became stone.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he to whom the serpent came,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And by my will I made him dust.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who struck the rock and made it tremble,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And made to burst from its side the sweetest of waters.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who sent down the certain truth.</div><div style="text-align: left;">From me the book that comforteth the oppressed.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who judged justly;</div><div style="text-align: left;">And when I judged it was my right.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who made the springs to give water,</div><div style="text-align: left;">Sweeter and pleasanter than all waters.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he that caused it to appear in my mercy,</div><div style="text-align: left;">And by my power I called it the pure.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he to whom the Lord of Heaven hath said.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Thou art the Just Judge, and the ruler of the earth.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who disclosed some of my wonders.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And some of my virtues are manifested in that which exists</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he who caused the mountains to bow,</div><div style="text-align: left;">To move under me, and at my will.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am he before whose awful majesty the wild beasts cried;</div><div style="text-align: left;">They turned to me worshipping, and kissed my feet.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I am Adi Es-shami, the son of Moosafir.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Verily the All-Merciful has assigned unto me names,</div><div style="text-align: left;">The heavenly throne, and the seat, and the seven and the earth.</div><div style="text-align: left;">In the secret of my knowledge there is no God but me.</div><div style="text-align: left;">These things are subservient to my power.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And for which state do you deny my guidance.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Oh men! deny me not, but submit;</div><div style="text-align: left;">In the day of Judgement you will be happy in meeting me.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Who dies in my love I will cast him</div><div style="text-align: left;">In the midst of Paradise by my will and pleasure;</div><div style="text-align: left;">But he who dies unmindful of me,</div><div style="text-align: left;">Will be thrown into torture in misery and affliction.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I say that I am the only one and the exalted;</div><div style="text-align: left;">I create and make rich those whom I will.</div><div style="text-align: left;">Praise be to myself, and all things are by my will.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And the universe is lighted by some of my gifts.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I am the king who magnifies himself;</div><div style="text-align: left;">And all the riches of creation are at my bidding.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I have made known unto you, O people, some of my ways,</div><div style="text-align: left;">Who desireth me must forsake the world.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And I can also speak the true saying.</div><div style="text-align: left;">And the garden on high is for those who do my pleasure.</div><div style="text-align: left;">I sought the truth, and became a confirming truth;</div><div style="text-align: left;">And by the like truth they shall possess the highest place like me</div></span></span></div></div></span></b></span></span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:100%;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" line-height: 19px; font-size:13px;"><br /></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:100%;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" line-height: 19px;font-size:13px;"><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjeKEb_B-mIlHmcaYdTD5f5RVXbDeZ2tq7Dve9sIewHlUutrvPfDa4aXfpoYXHZywUwR38ojOhxCYojRQWzoYfm-78CBT8SZUYJldtCSkXP3_mp6_O6OpKxArEUxUyUyMQn5HLVHI76gSLc/s320/Melek+Taus1.jpg" /></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial;color:#0099FF;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: 800; line-height: 24px; font-size:medium;"><i><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:100%;"><b><i></i></b></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:100%;"><b><i></i></b></span></i></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" font-style: italic; font-weight: bold; font-size:medium;"><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:100%;"><b><i><div><br /></div></i></b></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:100%;"><b><i></i></b></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:100%;"><b><i></i></b></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;">Here below we see some symbols in Cuneiform.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;">Please look at the first picture of Melek Taus, at the beginning of this topic and see the symbol on the left hand of the picture.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;">The symbol is the number 2 beloe, in Archaic Cuneiform style, dating 2,500 B.C. and means God, Heaven. (Note that it looks more like a brightness, a star).</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" color: rgb(0, 153, 255); font-family:Verdana, Arial;font-size:x-large;"><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjrMtWOo95NV55ilM3Cit3JGJSPl6vsFICnrHJL0pO_D1LDQHjY8xWvUGL0NEKGHXNnPIyUdGiAI5WWvw-XooZffYPjsJeIyincCVOiq8dKtXsirFSp7z7FSKo-CgGPwMCpQxt0aJIDDvbZ/s320/cuneiform-2.jpg" /></span></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com14tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-62040882274659755642010-04-22T13:50:00.001-07:002010-08-24T13:21:05.247-07:00Satan the Great!<div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;"><br /></span></b></div><div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;"> THE STORY REVEALED</span></b></div><br /><div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmDfZRUNsz9gWisRA4aIyeOy9yrZjCHqt3K4THDoFRDuCZMU1osJHw0VV2B6yl2VnzYJSY1JKVGb-GUAQ4fYm_beTKROhqg2tcCggSXok8XqPwZ-xKsAPBRU7EXwcvJ8KAiy7SbOimglxI/s1600-h/Lucifer.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmDfZRUNsz9gWisRA4aIyeOy9yrZjCHqt3K4THDoFRDuCZMU1osJHw0VV2B6yl2VnzYJSY1JKVGb-GUAQ4fYm_beTKROhqg2tcCggSXok8XqPwZ-xKsAPBRU7EXwcvJ8KAiy7SbOimglxI/s320/Lucifer.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5201394209140014802" border="0" /></a></div><div><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEPWK8tcT0kkyGSTj69jls8h_eo88sRRPq_4UcI8-1B4v_ra-QkpLWrCVUKvifzCGN8JDlpFoKEDWnRJVGkoBlcKpSNlXVM8i4hiMzks3YhYm2xDTCzkzkLmnZ_j-fVydBNeTjuOZvnv8k/s320/lucifer1.jpg" style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 224px;" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509072112501283218" /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdCbBXBh5aWLZEME4Ti27KhZymywv1SqvjsiJR-xGKN_gv_y3wUIjsw22N-Oyzs2stdsCPrz7ZKfbIQ3fwqamj9uFWVfTSJGPYSQsvpSjlYk-oJGIGlgVBG8QkRDExdEQTKILxQCZXivn0/s320/azazel.jpg" style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 225px; height: 225px;" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5509072984158564178" /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>Many of us have heard and read stories about this elusive figure </div><div>that they call Satan.</div><div>Religious people, zealots and ignorants alike have a lot in common: They believe blindly in the demonization of Satan, the Lord of Justice. The prosecutor who is said to preside over the court of G-d.</div><div><br /></div><div>He has been called:</div><div><b>Lucifer</b></div><div><b>Azazel</b></div><div><b>Samael</b></div><div><b>Shaytan</b></div><div><b>Evil one</b></div><div><b>Fallen one</b></div><div><b>Satan</b></div><div><b>Iblis</b></div><div><b>Beelzebub</b></div><div><b>Baphomet</b></div><div><b>Unclean one</b></div><div>...etc</div><div><br /></div><div>But none of these names give justice to this phenomenal character that we all call Satan.</div><div><div class="listitem"><div class="listitem">I will start with the first time that Iblis is mentioned in the Qu'ran (as this is to prove to Muslims how phenomenal Satan truly is) and will be his defender, for Iblis is honorable, truthful, mischievious, smart and wise!</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Al-Baqara 2:34 </b></span></div><div><br /></div><div>And behold, We said <b>to the angels</b>: "Bow down to Adam:" and they bowed down: not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: he was of those who reject Faith.</div><div><br /></div><div>Here is Allah's FIRST INSULT towards Iblis. Calling him a rejector of faith, simply because he wouldn't bow down to a MAN.</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Al-Hijr 15 [28] </b></span></div><div><br /></div><div>Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;</div><div><br /></div><div><b>[29]</b> "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."</div><div><br /></div><div><b>[30]</b> So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together:</div><div><br /></div><div><b>[31]</b> Not so Iblis: he refused to be among those who prostrated themselves.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>[32]</b> (Allah) said: "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"</div><div><br /></div><div><b>[33]</b> (Iblis) said: <b>"I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Here Iblis is stating his reason. He is not one to prostrate to man, as Iblis is SUPERIOR to man.</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>[34]</b> (Allah) said: "Then get thee out from here: for thou art rejected, accursed.</span></div><div><br /></div><div>Here Allah CURSES and REJECTS his own creation for not bowing to a MAN made of clay.</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>[35]</b> "And the Curse shall be on thee till the Day of Judgment."</span></div><div><br /></div><div>Again, Allah exaggerates his punishment for his EGO being hurt, and CURSES Iblis again for the second time. Iblis so far has not cursed anyone. <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif" border="0" /><a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"></a></div><a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"></a><div></div><div><div class="listitem"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>[36] </b>(Iblis) said: "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."</span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>[37]</b> (Allah) said: "Respite is granted thee,</div><div><br /></div><div><b>[38]</b> "Till the Day of the Time Appointed."</div><div><br /></div><div><b>[39]</b> (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong</div><div><br /></div><div>Here we see Iblis telling Allah to give him respite until the day the dead are raised (Which is never.. clever Iblis!!) <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif" border="0" /> And Allah AGREES to it! <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_surprise.gif" border="0" /></div><div>Not only Allah agrees to it IMMEDIATELY, making a mockery of his own punishment to Iblis, but he is also intimidated by Iblis, when Iblis says that because ALLAH has put him (Iblis) in the wrong, i.e. DECEIVED HIM, he will put everyone in the wrong too.</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>[40]</b> "Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy grace)."</span></div><div><br /></div><div>Iblis tells Allah that he will put everyone in the wrong, EXCEPT for those SERVANTS of Allah, who are SINCERE and PURIFIED by his grace!</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>[41] </b>(Allah) said: "This (Way of My sincere servants) is indeed a Way that leads straight to Me.</span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>[42] </b>"For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee."</div><div><br /></div><div>And here Allah tells Iblis that Iblis shall NOT have any authority over the servants of Allah EXCEPT those "servants" who put themselves in the wrong and follow Iblis' mischiefs.</div><div><br /></div><div>(One of them is Muhammad).</div><div><br /></div><div>Points to note:</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Allah clearly claims that Iblis will have NO AUTHORITY over his servants, but we will see from the Hadiths, and the Quran (Satanic verses) how Muhammad was under the influence of Satan, thus proving the following:</b></div><div><br /></div><div>1. Allah is a liar</div><div>2. Allah has no power over Satan</div><div>3. Muhammad was a transgressor</div><div>4. Iblis does what he wants and still manages to hold positions of the highest power in HEAVEN! (Yes, heaven, not hell! For Iblis presides over the COURT OF G-D, as a judge)!<a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"></a></div><a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"></a><div></div><div><div class="para">Muslims claim many things, amongst them is that Iblis was a Jinn, a creature made of fire. and not an Angel.</div><div>But Iblis seems to be the ONLY JINN who is always amongst Angels and the one who holds the highest power over them all, even over Allah!</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Al-Khaf 18: 50</b></span></div><div><br /></div><div>Behold! We said <b>to the angels</b>, "Bow down to Adam": they bowed down except Iblis. <b>He was one of the Jinns</b>, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? and they are enemies to you! evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers! </div><div><br /></div><div>Here the Quran says that Allah told the ANGELS to bow down to Adam (Not to Jinns), and they did, but Iblis did not, for he was a JINN (Therefore the command did not apply to him). Nevertheless, we see Allah criticizing Iblis once again and LYING.<b> "he broke the Command of his Lord"</b>.</div><div><br /></div><div>Iblis did not break the command because he was a JINN, not an Angel, therefore he was 100% correct in not bowing down, as the command was for ANGELS, not Jinns. <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif" border="0" /> But unfortunately this miscarriage of justice BY ALLAH, did not stop Allah from insulting Iblis, and treating him with disdain, and a total lack of respect, despite being one of his own creations. </div></div></div></div> <div class="listitem"></div><div><div class="listitem">Ibn Humayd gave us about the same account again, reporting from Salamah- Ibn Ishaq- Khallad b. `Ata'- Tawus or Abu al-Hajjaj Mujahid- Ibn `Abbas, and others.</div><div>However, he said: <b>(Iblis) was an angel <u>named Azazil</u>. He was one of the dwellers and cultivators on earth. The dwellers on earth from among the angel used to be called jinn." (Ibid., p. 254)</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Iblis' name was in Arabic <b>AZAZIL</b>. In Hebrew he is called <b>AZAZEL</b>, and G-d honors him.</div><div>The Torah tells us that G-d tells the Hebrews to always send a <b>FREE GOAT</b> to the deserts whenever they sacrifice, as a gift for Azazel. G-d tells the Hebrews that Azazel's gift must be a goat set free in the desert and NOT KILLED. But G-d's gifts are KILLED as sacrifices.</div><div><br /></div><div>This means that G-d is only happy with the shedding of blood, and requires killing sacrifices. But Iblis/Azazel does not. He prefers that creatures be set free as a gift to honor him! How beautiful is that? <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_smile.gif" border="0" /></div><div><br /></div><div>Ancient Hebrew/Jewish ritual for YHVH and AZAZEL:</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">In Lev. xvi. the single allusion to Azazel is as follows:</span></div><div><br /></div><div>On the tenth day of Tishri (see Atonement Day) the high priest, after first performing the prescribed sacrifices for himself and his family, presented the victims for the sins of the people. These were a ram for a burnt offering, and two young goats for a sin-offering. Having brought the goats before Yhwh at the door of the tabernacle, he cast lots for them, the one lot "for Yhwh" and the other "for Azazel." The goat that fell to Yhwh was slain as a sin-offering for the people.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>But the goat of Azazel (now usually known as the "scapegoat") was made the subject of a more striking ceremony. The high priest laid his hands upon its head and confessed over it the sins of the people. Then the victim was handed over to a man standing ready for the purpose, and, laden as it was with these imputed sins, it was "led forth to an isolated region," and then let go in the wilderness.</b><span style="text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold;"></span><b><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span></b></div><b><div><br /></div></b><div><a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"></a><div class="para">So now we have seen that even G-d HONORS Iblis/Azazel with sacrifices. <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_smile.gif" border="0" /></div><div>Funny that, because most of the people think that G-d hates Satan, and that he is G-d's enemy. Obviously this is not the case. In fact, Satan is G-d's best friend, as he has kept him in business all these years! <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif" border="0" /></div><div><br /></div><div>Continuing with the SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE that G-d honors Satan:</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">The two goats on Yom Kippur; the mitzvah is for them to be identical in appearance, size, and value, the two shall be chosen together. (Talmud - Yoma 62a)</span></div><div><br /></div><div>The Talmud teaches that these two goats should look identical -- like twins. This seems strange. Why would the goats need to be identical, especially when their purpose is so different? (Perhaps because Satan is the TWIN of G-d?)</div><div><br /></div><div>The origin of the two goats themselves is found in that famous episode when Jacob (Yaqub) is persuaded by his mother to dress up like his brother. Rebecca (his wife) instructs him:</div><div><br /></div><div><b>"Go now to the herd and bring me two good goats..." (Genesis 27:9)</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Two GOOD goats she says. So one for the sacrifice to YHVH and one to be set FREE for Azazel.</div><div><br /></div><div>Just a small note:</div><div><br /></div><div>Azazel means: "G-d strengthens" from Hebrew root AZAZ. So in fact Iblis seems to be a very strong character who is fully worthy of sacrifices, not killed sacrifices, but living ones, and the "GOAT FOR AZAZEL" is always offered together with the goat to YHVH. </div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div class="para">Satan as he first appears in the Hebrew Bible, is not necessarily evil, much less opposed to G-d.</div><div>On the contrary, he appears in the book of Numbers and in Job as one of G-d’s obedient servants – a messenger, or <b>angel</b>, a word that translates the Hebrew term for messenger <b>mal’akh</b> into Greek <b>angelos</b>.</div><div><br /></div><div>In Hebrew, the angels were called ‘sons of G-d’ <b>Bnei Elohim</b>, and were envisioned as the hierarchical ranks of a great army, or the staff of a royal court.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Satan - Merciful to animals</b></div><div><br /></div><div>The story of Balaam in the biblical book of Numbers, for example, tells of a man who decided to go where G-d had ordered him not to go.</div><div><br /></div><div>Balaam saddled his ass and set off, ‘but G-d’s anger was kindled because he went; and<b> the angel of the Lord took his stand in the road as his <i>Satan</i></b>’ that is, as his adversary, or his obstructor.</div><div><br /></div><div>This supernatural messenger remained invisible to Balaam, but the ass saw him and stopped in her tracks … [22:23-25 follows]</div><div><br /></div><div>The third time the ass saw the obstructing angel, she stopped and lay down under Balaam, ‘and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and <b>he struck the ass with his staff.’ </b></div><div><br /></div><div>Then, the story continues [22:28-30 follows] … Then ‘the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, with his drawn sword in his hand, and he bowed his head and fell on his face.’ Then the <b>satan</b> rebukes Balaam, and speaks for his master, the Lord:</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">‘Why have you struck your ass three times? Behold, I came here to oppose you, because <b>your way is evil in my eyes; and the ass saw me. … If she had not turned away from me, I would surely have killed you right then, and let her live’</b> (22:31-33).</span></div><div><br /></div><div>Here is Satan rebuking Balaam for HITTING his she-donkey!!</div><div><br /></div><div>Now, can you see that SATAN is merciful? Iblis is more merciful than Allah indeed!</div><div><br /></div><div>Points to note now:</div><div><br /></div><div>1. Iblis prefers FREE animals as a sacrifice. G-d wants them bleeding and DEAD.</div><div>2. Iblis is merciful. Allah is not.</div><div><br /></div><div><div class="listitem"><h3 class="smller">Satan in the book of Job</h3> <div class="listitem">The book of Job, too, describes the <b>satan</b> as a supernatural messenger, a member of G-d’s royal court. But while Balaam’s <b>satan</b> protects him from harm, Job’s <b>satan</b> takes a more adversarial role.</div><div><br /></div><div>Here the Lord himself admits that the <b>satan incited him to act</b> against Job (2:3).</div><div><br /></div><div>How can SATAN have so much influence over G-d in order to make G-d hurt his own creations? <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif" border="0" /></div><div><br /></div><div>The story begins when <b>satan</b> appears as an angel, a ‘son of G-d’ - Bnei Elohim, a term that, in Hebrew idiom, often means ‘one of the divine beings.’ Here this angel, <b>satan</b>, comes with the rest of the heavenly host on the day appointed for them to ‘present themselves before the Lord.’</div><div><br /></div><div>When the Lord asks whence he comes, <b>satan</b> answers, <b>‘From roaming on the earth, and walking up and down on it.’</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Point to note: G-d is supposed to KNOW everything, so why did he ask Satan where he has been? lol!</div><div>Also, as you can see, Satan was NOT confined to hell or in chains, he was ROAMING the Earth, free as a bird. <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif" border="0" /></div><div><br /></div><div>Here the storyteller gives the idea that <b>satan</b>’s special role in the heavenly court is that of a kind of roving intelligence agent, like the secret police and intelligence officers.</div><div><br /></div><div>Here <b>satan</b> terrifies and harms a person but, like the angel of death, remains an angel, a member of the heavenly court, G-d’s obedient servant.</div><div><br /></div><div>It does not matter what Satan does, he is always doing what he is supposed to do. He encourages G-d to hurt some, he saves the ones he wills, and he prosecutes the ones he does not approve of. And G-d ALWAYS accepts his judgments, because Satan is his spy, and his mischievous best friend.<a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"></a></div><a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"></a><div></div><div><div class="para">I mention TOBIT Chapter 12, where we have an Angel that serves Iblis and does his job when he is busy. His name is <b>RAPHAEL</b>, whose name means: G-d has healed.</div><div><br /></div><div>The story goes that Tobit was a righteous man and always did the right things. I quote from the Bible:</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"><b>{1:19}</b> Every day, Tobit traveled though all his own people, and he consoled them, and he distributed to each one as much as he could from his resources.</span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>{1:20}</b> He nourished the hungry, and he supplied clothes to the naked, and he showed concern for the burial of the dead and of the slain.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{1:21}</b> And then, when king Sennacherib had returned from Judea, fleeing the scourge which God had caused all around him because of his blasphemy, and, being angry, he was slaughtering many from the sons of Israel, Tobit buried their bodies.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{1:22}</b> And when it was reported to the king, he ordered him to be slain, and he took away all his belongings.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{1:23}</b> In truth, Tobit, fleeing with nothing but his son and his wife, was able to remain hidden because many loved him.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{1:24}</b> In truth, after forty-five days, the king was slain by his own sons,</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{1:25}</b> and Tobit was able to return to his house, and all his resources were restored to him.</div><div><br /></div><div>The story is here for the ones who are interested: Please read it all, it is really interesting!</div><div><a href="http://www.sacredbible.org/catholic/OT-17_Tobit.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sacredbible.org/catholic/OT-<wbr>17_Tobit.htm</a></div><div><br /></div><div>But I am coming to the point now:</div><div><br /></div><div>See how G-d was BAD towards Tobit:</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>{2:10}</b> But it happened one day, being tired from burying the dead, he came into his house, and he threw himself down next to the wall, and he slept.</span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>{2:11}</b> And, as he was sleeping, warm droppings from a swallow’s nest fell upon his eyes, <b>and he was made blind.</b></div><div><br /></div><div><b>{2:12}</b> And so <b>the Lord permitted this trial to befall him, in order that an example might be given to posterity of his patience</b>, which is even like that of holy Job. </div></div></div> <div class="listitem"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"> </a></div><div><div class="para">So, Tobit was a good man, always putting his life at risk to bury the dead, and one day, he becomes blind and G-d ALLOWS IT, in order to TEST his patience!</div><div><br /></div><div>Are you following? See how EVIL this G-d is, as he should already KNOW IT ALL, but obviously he does not.</div><div><br /></div><div>The story continues:</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>{2:19}</b> In truth, his wife Anna went out to weaving work daily, and she brought back the provisions that <b>she was able to obtain by the labor of her hands.</b></span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>{2:20} </b>Whereupon it happened that, having received a young goat, she brought it home.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{2:21} </b>When her husband heard the sound of its bleating, he said, “Look, so that it might not be stolen, return it to its owners, for it is not lawful for us either to eat, or to touch, anything stolen.”</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{2:22} </b>At this, his wife, being angry, answered, “Clearly, your hope has become vanity, and the manner of your almsgiving has become apparent.”</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{2:23}</b> And with these and other similar such words, she reproached him.</div><div><br /></div><div>Here we see a case of DISCORD at home. Because Tobit became BLIND, and G-d allowed it, his wife had to work very hard in order to obtain FOOD.</div><div><br /></div><div>You can read the verses in between as i am jumping a few to make a point</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>{3:7} </b>And so, on the same day, it happened that Sarah, the daughter of Raguel, in Rages, a city of the Medes, also heard a reproach from one of her father’s servant maids.</span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>{3:8} For <b>she had been given to seven husbands, and a demon named Asmodeus had killed them, as soon as they had approached her.</b></b></div><div><br /></div><div>Here we see that the Bible does NOT condemn a woman for having 7 husbands! </div></div> <div class="listitem"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/Profile.aspx?uid=13754009646490772146"> </a></div><div><div class="para">Read the verses after that.. and ..</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>{5:5}</b> Then Tobias, departing, found a splendid young man, standing girded and seemingly ready for travel.</span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>{5:6}</b> And not knowing that he was an<b> Angel of G-d</b>, he greeted him, and he said, “Where are you from, good young man?”</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{5:7}</b> And so he answered, <b>“From the sons of Israel.”</b> And Tobias said to him, “Do you know the way that leads to the region of the Medes?”</div><div><br /></div><div>......</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{12:13}</b> And because you were acceptable to G-d, it was necessary for you to be tested by trials.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{12:14}</b> And now, the Lord has sent me to cure you, and to free Sarah, your son’s wife, from the demon.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>{12:15}</b> For I am the Angel Raphael, <b>one of seven, who stand before the Lord.”</b></div><div><br /></div><div>The link will tell the whole story, but the point in this one is that RAFAEL (Raphael) is one of the Angels who work for IBLIS / SATAN. Iblis being the Archangel.</div><div>Thus he commands these Angels to test mankind but he is MERCIFUL and always tells his angels to teach the right thing.</div><div><br /></div><div></div></div>Iblis is superior. Jinns are superior. <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif" border="0" /></div><div>Besides, it was Allah who DECEIVED him (Iblis) and punished him for obeying his first command: "Do not bow to anything but me!"</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>Al-Haj 26</b></span></div><div><br /></div><div>Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying):</div><div><b>"Associate not anything (in worship) with Me;</b> and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).</div><div><br /></div><div>Therefore BOWING to MAN is associating him with WORSHIP.</div><div><br /></div><div>Allah is most deceiving. Allah has given UNLAWFUL commands to Angels, and to Iblis, and for this error, he is suffering the constant bullying and mischiefs of Iblis, for Allah has NO POWER over Iblis. He cannot stop him.</div><div><br /></div><div>Iblis is an angel who does the works of G-d, therefore he is G-d's helper. <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif" border="0" /></div><div><br /></div><div>Muslims blame their weaknesses on Satan, and if this is so, it means they are under his influence. Thus if they are under his influence they are not the servants of Allah, for Allah said:</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b>[42]</b> "For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee."</span></div><div><br /></div><div>This means that Muslims who are under the influence of Iblis are the ones who DELIBERATELY put themselves in the wrong. <img alt="" src="http://www.blogger.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif" border="0" /></div><div><br /></div><div>That means: Muhammad, Ali, and all the rest of his gang, and also the rest of the Muslims world who commits violence and other atrocities.</div><div></div></div><div>________________________________</div><div><br /></div><div>Genesis:</div><div><br /></div><div>2:16<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>God gave the man a commandment, saying, 'You may definitely eat from every tree of the garden.</div><div><br /></div><div>2:17<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>But from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, do not eat, for on the day you eat from it, you will definitely die.'</div><div><br /></div><div>So here we have the CLASSIC LIE and the DECEIT of G-D.</div><div>1. Reversed psychology.</div><div><br /></div><div>G-d used reversed psychology (he should have known better, one would think) and pointed to the INNOCENT HUMANS the very tree they were not supposed to eat from. And it not a very important tree, it was just a tree of GOOD AND EVIL. This meant G-d DID NOT WANT Humans to be aware of GOOD or EVIL.</div><div><br /></div><div>WHY??? We will soon know why.</div><div><br /></div><div>But that's not all. He also LIED. He told the humans that ON THE DAY they eat from it, they would DIE. (Surely a lie, because they did not die).</div><div><br /></div><div>Now let's continue:</div><div><br /></div><div>Genesis</div><div><br /></div><div>3:1<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The serpent was the most cunning of all the wild beasts that God had made. [The serpent] asked the woman, 'Did God really say that you may not eat from any of the trees of the garden?'</div><div><br /></div><div>3:2<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The woman replied to the serpent, 'We may eat from the fruit of the trees of the garden.</div><div><br /></div><div>3:3<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>But of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God said, 'Do not eat it, and do not [even] touch it, or else you will die.' '</div><div><br /></div><div>3:4<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The serpent said to the woman, 'You will certainly not die!</div><div><br /></div><div>3:5<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Really, God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.'</div><div>______________________</div><div><br /></div><div>Points to note:</div><div><br /></div><div>a) G-d created the serpent as THE MOST CUNNING OF ALL THE WILD BEASTS.</div><div><br /></div><div>b) The serpent told the woman SHE WOULD NOT DIE if she ate from the tree.</div><div><br /></div><div>c) The serpent TOLD EVE THE TRUTH. And the truth was:</div><div><br /></div><div>God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.'</div><div>____________________________</div><div><br /></div><div>Now, WHO is the cunning one?</div><div>Who lied??</div><div><br /></div><div>More points to make:</div><div><br /></div><div>1. The garden was a huge place, but the serpent was at the right place at the right time. (Strange.. G-d could NOT stop the serpent, could he?)</div><div><br /></div><div>2. The serpent HEARD what G-d said (But it seems G-d was not aware of its presence).</div><div><br /></div><div>3. The serpent KNEW about GOOD and EVIL, and it also knew that G-d was HIDING this from the humans.</div><div><br /></div><div>4. If the serpent was cunning (No, the most cunning) of all the beasts, it means that it too knew GOOD and EVIL, and obviously it too ate from that tree, and G-d did NOTHING.</div><div><br /></div><div>After that, the whole story is flawed.</div><div><br /></div><div>Humans eat the fruit, humans realize they were naked (which is rubbish, because nakedness was not a shameful thing, and if it was, G-d himself is guilty of making it shameful), then they HEAR G-D'S VOICE, and G-d ASKS where they were hiding.</div><div><br /></div><div>It means, G-d did not even know where they were!!</div><div><br /></div><div>Let's see.. what does it take to BE LIKE G-D? Ahh, just to know GOOD and EVIL. Then you are LIKE G-D. So the serpent has told us the characteristic of this G-d, and from where I am standing, he surely does not seem too different from us. We know GOOD and EVIL, so WE are like G-d.</div><div><br /></div><div>After all, we were created <span style="font-weight:bold;">"at their image, after their likeness"</span></div><div><br /></div><div>WHO IS G-D then?? If we were created at their image and after their likeness, it means we look like them. We don't necessarily have to behave like them, as it says nothing about behaviour. We were after all, created LIKE them, but not totally from them. They added their ESSENCE to the essence of Earthlings, or walking apes.</div><div><br /></div><div>THIS VERY STORY was SUMERIAN, written 4,000 years before the Torah was written.</div><div><br /></div><div>Would you believe if I told you that the Sumerians tell us that their G-Ds are actually beings from another planet, that came from the heavens in their spacecrafts?</div><div><br /></div><div>It's all true. This is precisely what they told us. They are called ANUNNAKI. (Those who from heaven to earth came).</div><div><br /></div><div>Now, whether we believe or not, is another story, but they tell us just that. And there is no need to interpret anything, just read and enjoy the read, for you shall find many mysterious things there, and they will open your eyes, like the fruit Adam and Eve have eaten.</div><div><br /></div><div>So, in reality these "beings" were "divine" if you like to call them that, and obviously a hell of a lot wiser and more knowledgeable than the humans THEY CREATED. In fact it was the GODDESS NINMAH. (Not a man, not a G-d, but a GODDESS).</div><div><br /></div><div>She was a GENETICIST. She performed GENETICAL MANIPULATION, DNA CLONING and was a doctor.</div><div><br /></div><div>Now, how is that for a people who lived around 6,000 BC?</div><div><br /></div><div>Then, 4,000 years later comes the Hebrew tribe and they create their own stories COPYING every single thing (Genesis) from their book.</div><div><br /></div><div>The rest of the Torah is NOT copied. Some of it is true Historical accounts, and although many of the events were true, they DID NOT apply to the Hebrew people to a certain degree.</div><div><br /></div><div>Anyway... I don't want to destroy your faith or belief, so believe in what you want.</div><div><br /></div><div>Now, that is NOT to say the whole Torah is false. NO WAY. Because it is NOT.</div><div><br /></div><div>In fact the stories (most of them) are really true. The only difference is that they did not apply exclusively to the JEWS. The Jews were merely telling Sumerian stories of creation, and then they MERGED these stories with their own stories.</div><div><br /></div><div>Now, whoever interpreted these stories was an idiot, because the information contained in the Torah is a goldmine for those who are truly capable to understand it, to read it, WITHOUT making the mistake of interpreting it.</div><div><br /></div><div>Many have learned the INTERPRETED Torah, therefore although you may know what it says, you do not comprehend, and instead of accepting the stories, you search to TWIST their meanings to make these things sound as if they were bad.</div><div><br /></div><div>The Snake was HONEST. He said the truth. (His name was ENKI. He was the G-d Enki of the Sumerians.)</div><div><br /></div><div>G-d himself was ENLIL (Brother of Enki).</div><div><br /></div><div>Enlil was the leader of the G-ds (say the CEO). Enki, despite being older was the second in command, because his real job was to be a GENETICIST, amongst other things, like THEIR SISTER, NINMAH.</div><div><br /></div><div>ENKI, ENLIL & NINMAH = Brothers and sister, the ones in command of the Earth Mission.</div><div><br /></div><div>These were OUR first G-ds.</div><div><br /></div><div>Monotheism only started when these g-ds fell out with one another.</div><div><br /></div><div>***********************************************</div><div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;"><br /></span></b></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" ;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;"><i><span style="font-size:85%;"><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;">Galzu tells Enki (depicted with his snake icon) to warn Ziasudra (touching the "wall"--probably a computer bank, depicted with Xs across the screens and slots for programs) of the Flood. Galzu guides Enki's arm to convey tablet (possibly a computer or holo disk. The disk is shown leaving Enki's hand en route to Ziasudra's computer)</span></b></span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;"> </span></b></span></i><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:78%;"><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;">[Drawing from Sitchin, Z., 2002, </span></b><i><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;">The Lost Book of Enki</span></b></i><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#663366;">: page 194.] </span></b></span></span></div><div><br /></div><div><img src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEizSlqT9m9FKXb82KtkZEwj0GrJl2KDUgcignPP00TwyhEnqOMRvmHGCXDR14ALoxrY0nohWqbMGqRueu1_a0eGpaNc2gYAYBDPhge8gJ4t8tEPEpspFJqZPc7y46b700RnXCvu5US8Dgoe/s320/enki.jpg" /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><b>- Morrigan -</b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><b><br /></b></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-42217542222512681732010-04-21T07:45:00.000-07:002010-04-21T07:51:20.416-07:00Palestinian Zionist Organization (PZO)<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyv6FQQFUnIXxtyWboK5qqxTKJqzhqbePAkEUFy73XAn0hNzyusZCIz4KtOWb9k7_dlEwd_IwIbbxjdCp_Ql5tAgtB9u1MLudz30lO9pKukcaG0g6UH4814BQdFjomu6RO82uUCmKz5LZI/s1600/logopzo10.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 118px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyv6FQQFUnIXxtyWboK5qqxTKJqzhqbePAkEUFy73XAn0hNzyusZCIz4KtOWb9k7_dlEwd_IwIbbxjdCp_Ql5tAgtB9u1MLudz30lO9pKukcaG0g6UH4814BQdFjomu6RO82uUCmKz5LZI/s320/logopzo10.jpg" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5462603435699571090" /></a><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Dear all,<br /><br />You will be pleased to hear that a NEW and WONDERFUL organization has been created!<br />It's the first, and only <strong>PALESTINIAN ZIONIST ORGANIZATION</strong>. Now this is very good news for Jews everywhere and terrible news for Islam! <br /><br />Here is their website: http://www.palestinianzionistorganization.com/<br /><br />From Arutz Sheva:<br /><br />For the first time since pre-State days when Zion and Palestine were synonymous terms, a “Palestinian Zionist Organization” has been established – by Arabs.<br /><br />The latest Arab to show his public support for Israel is Elias Issa, who describes himself as a “European West-Bank Palestinian.” He writes that he chose a unique approach by which to celebrate Israel’s 62nd birthday – namely, by launching the Palestinian Zionist Organization. He says his goal is “to show the world why it must support the Jewish people and to [distance itself] from the terrorist Palestinian government.” <br /><br /><strong>Statements on the new website include warnings that a new PA state, if it were to arise, would “become the most terrorist state in the world… The Palestinians don't believe in a two-state solution; they only believe in a one-state solution - a land called Palestine [which] does not involve any Jewishness."</strong><br /><br />Issa, who now lives in the United States, explains that the international community is blind “to what's truly going on in this Middle East conflict. [I hope] to make a difference by shining a different kind of light on the Palestinian-Israeli situation.” <br /><br />The website notes that “more and more Palestinians” are going public in their support for Israel. Just last month, Mosab Hassan Yousef – the son of a Hamas founder and leader – published his autobiography, detailing how he spied for Israel for a decade, preventing dozens of suicide attacks and exposing numerous terrorist groups. He later converted to Christianity and moved to the U.S. <br /><br />There is also Walid Shoebat, one of the more famous figures on this list. Shoebat was born in Bethlehem, the grandson of the Mukhtar of Beit Sahour. Shoebat joined the PLO in his youth, and was involved in attacks against Israel, and later moved to the U.S. After the 9/11 attacks in 2001, Shoebat became an active advocate against Islamism and a fervent supporter of the State of Israel, arguing that parallels exist between radical Islam and Nazism. <br /><br />Speaking to Israel National Radio's Tovia Singer some years ago, Shoebat said, <strong>“I deeply wish to be granted forgiveness from the [IDF] soldier whom I almost killed… I would beg [him] to please understand that I underwent an educational occupation of hatred which brainwashed my mind to hate Jews. We were taught it since we were children and I did not know any better.”</strong><br /><br /><br />Dr. Tawfik Hamid, once a member of an Islamic terror organization, took part in last year’s “Facing Tomorrow” conference in Jerusalem. He believes that the Jews have done their best, and that it’s now the Muslim world’s turn to make some changes and concessions… You [the Jewish People] are a great nation, and in the most difficult times, such as when the Nazis were putting you in ovens, you were able to get out of it and build a great country of human rights – and so, don’t let your country surrender to barbarism; fight for it and use every tactic you can use to stand against it… Never make concessions to radicals; the more concessions you make, the more they attack you.”<br /><br />Another former terrorist, ex-Arafat aide and terrorist Taysir Saada, converted to Christianity and now heads Hope for Ishmael, an organization dedicated to reconciling Arabs and Jews. (IsraelNationalNews.com)Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-86659766537463464372010-04-17T15:05:00.000-07:002010-04-20T04:00:09.193-07:00Jesus in the Quran<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhbE1nd9dhSLYTEKVREI2pbty726meJfXEed4R-XFVIQW2ZYT0meDAYHVfEzRYr0SbkMfgc2g_tWE6FjeyO43X3DLFIbejsXTLLjH_Pw-TatePGIgGlOxQ7-wPGyLW-i_D1OJDxYhJEQWdH/s1600/jesus.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 305px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhbE1nd9dhSLYTEKVREI2pbty726meJfXEed4R-XFVIQW2ZYT0meDAYHVfEzRYr0SbkMfgc2g_tWE6FjeyO43X3DLFIbejsXTLLjH_Pw-TatePGIgGlOxQ7-wPGyLW-i_D1OJDxYhJEQWdH/s320/jesus.jpg" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5461967514540150290" /></a><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Jesus in the <span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Qur'an</span> is called the Spirit of God. <span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">The Bible teaches that Gods spirit is God himself Jn.4:24 “God is </span><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Spirit.” Surely a Muslim would agree with this. However if you are the Spirit of God, then you are God, since that is his essential nature, Spirit. At least according to the Bible.</span></p> <p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >When one reads the Qur'an what comes apparent is that it does not advocate anything the Bible does in reference to God’s personhood.</span></p> <p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Sura 19:20,34, Jesus praised his birth and then said, “I am the servant of Allah.” And Allah teaches, “It is not for God to take a son unto Him.” Here we have Jesus speaking denying everything he said in the Bible.</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >In Sura 10:68-70<b> </b>They say: “God hath begotten a son!” - Glory be to Him! He is self- sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! say ye about God what ye know not? Say: “Those who invent a lie against God will never prosper.” A little enjoyment in this world!- and then, to Us will be their return, then shall We make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies.”</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >What we have is a revelation of Mohammad that came after 550 years of the last revelation by Jesus and his appointed apostles.</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >To the Hebrews chapter 1:vs.1-2 “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds”</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The last revelation encompasses over 1,500 years of writings from various prophets and the personal revelation in the New Testament of those who knew Jesus and heard what he said. This is ignored and discarded for one mans non-eyewitness testimony who was telling everyone in the Middle East, that Jews and Christians are wrong and their Bible is wrong.</span></p> <p style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Sura 5, section 16, verse 119, reads: “And behold! God will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, “Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God”? He will say: “Glory to thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I have not known what is in thine. For thou knowest in full all that is hidden.”</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The only time the trinity is mentioned in the Qur'an is to bring disbelief or mock the nature of the one God.</span></p> <p style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Sura 5:72-73, 5:75 “They do blaspheme who say: “God is Christ the son of Mary.” They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a trinity: for there is no God except one God Allah. If they do not desist from their word of blasphemy, verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. Christ the son of Mary was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him.<br /><br />”</span></p> <p style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Sura 4:169 “Believe in God and his apostles and say not three..”</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Now it needs to be pointed out that the word Trinity is never mentioned in the Bible yet it is explained by examination on the nature of God in the Scriptures. The Christians that lived in Mohammad's area did not believe in the trinity nor that God has a son, they were considered non Christian by those who held the historic Christian teachings. These were the Nestoriams and the others were the Monophysites who Mohammad would encounter on his trading journeys to Syria and elsewhere.</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >It is not unlikely that Mohammad had come to this same conclusion from his own environment. Sura 3:59: “The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be.” And he was.”</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >So it is interpreted the Jesus is a human being that is a no different than any other except that he had a virgin birth. He is a prophet as there are other prophets, and that is all that He is. If Jesus was created just as Adam was created, why is Jesus called the Spirit of God and Adam is not?</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Any Muslim who believes Christ is God has committed the unforgivable sin, that will send him to hell. Sura 43:59 states “Jesus was no more than a mortal whom Allah favored and made an example to the Israelites. <u>They are unbelievers who say God is Messiah</u>, Mary’s son.”</span></p> <span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><b> </b></span><p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><b>The Bible</b>-speaking of the son that will be born<b><i> </i></b><i>“</i>His name<i> will be called<b> </b>wonderful, counselor, mighty God, Father of eternity, prince of peace.” (Isa.9:6</i>).<br /><br />These are all names attributed to God alone and more than a few Scriptures that have never change state of the messiah, THE SON AND BRANCH…Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”</span></p> <span style="font-size:100%;"> <p>They claim to believe all the prophets of the Bible, but what is written are denials of all what the prophets said about the Messiah and Jesus.</p> </span><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" > <p>Qur'an Sura 4:171: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” :desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. <br /><br />To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”</p> </span><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;"> </span><p align="justify"><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">Another translation says, </span><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >“O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. <u>The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah</u>, and His word which he conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit [sic.] from Him. <u>So believe in Allah and His messengers and say not 'Three' - Cease!</u> (it is better for you! - Allah is only one God. <u>Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son...The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah.</u>”</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Mohammad was well aware what Christians believed. The question is did he understand it? He was so zealous to change the pagans of his day to have only one God, that he seemed to have ignored what the one God revealed about Himself in the Holy Scriptures, the Bible. This constricted dogmatism is felt today as Muslims are not allowed to intellectually challenge themselves to understand or pursue what Christians (the people of the book) actually believe.</span></p> <span style="font-weight: bold;font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:130%;" > <p align="center">What about The Son of God?</p> </span><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" > </span><p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The Bible states well over 20 times that God is One! (The Torah, Psalms, Prophets and Gospel Deut.6:4; Ps.86:10; Is.44:6-8.) <br /><br />The Qur’an agrees with this, but this is where the agreement stops, as the Bible also speaks of God's Son in the Old Testament and in prophecy of God becoming a man. Certainly if God is all-powerful it is possible for him to do this. If one is to say he cannot then logically they must admit He is not all-powerful. So that is not what is to be questioned. The real question to be answered is <u> did He do this</u>? The New Testament apostles all agree He did and use the Old Testament to prove it.</span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >When a Muslim is asked to consider Christianity, they can’t, because of the misrepresentation they have already accepted. They don’t really know what we believe. <span style="font-size:100%;">The Qur’an agrees with the Bible that there is only one God. </span>Islam thinks we believe in three gods, the father, the mother and the son. They believe Jesus is literally the son of God, that he was conceived by sex. To be a Son of God means having sex with God and having a offspring. That is just as offensive to us as it is to them. The only church that claims to be Christians who hold to this are the Mormons; we do NOT believe they are Christians because of this and many other doctrines such as many gods.<span style="font-size:100%;"> Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God had sexual relations with a woman to produce a literal son. Christianity has never taught a son was produced through any physical act of God. What Muslims need to do to arrive at the true meaning is to as ask what does that term mean in the Bible, and not bring their own interpretation to the Biblical term. <br /><br />If you pursue what the Bible means by this term and you will arrive at the context found throughout the Scriptures. </span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> <span style="font-size:100%;"> The Qur'an depicts that there is no son, as they interpret it to mean that He (the son) is an literal offspring; we agree with their rejection of this because this is not the Bibles meaning of Son</span>, the Bible does not say God has a wife or son in this manner. </span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Sura 6:102 “The originator of heavens and earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort?”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-size:100%;">Sura 72:3 “We believe that He - exalted be the glory of our Lord - hath taken neither wife nor son.”</span></span></p> <span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" > </span></span><p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Sura 112:1-4 “Proclaim, 'He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him.”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Sura 25:2-3 “He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten, nor has He a partner in His dominion: it is He who created all things, and ordered them in due proportions. Yet have they taken, besides him, gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor can they control death nor life nor resurrection.”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >This is from Sura 19:88-92 They say: “(God) Most Gracious has begotten a son!” Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, That they should invoke a son for (God) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (God) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.”</span></span></p> <span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-size:100%;"> <p>“They say, `God has taken to Him a son' .... Say: `Those who forge against God falsehood shall not prosper.” (Arberry, Interpreted, p. 233) “Praise belongs to God [Allah], who has not taken to Him a son” (Arberry, Interpreted p. 315) “Warn those who say, `God has taken to Himself a son'; ... a monstrous word it is, issuing out of their mouths; they say nothing but a lie.” (Arberry, Interpreted p. 316)</p> </span><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" > </span></span><p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" > Sura 18:4-5 “Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, “God hath begotten a son”: No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what <u>they say is nothing but falsehood</u>!”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >In the time of Muhammad the pagan Meccan's believed that God had daughters. Also, according to Ibn Ishaq, there were Christians who believed that the virgin Mary was God's mother and that Christ was the physical son of God. This is probably why, in the Qur'an, there are verses such as these.</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Muslims believe that words like father and son necessarily mean that the father must have a wife in order to have a son. How could Jesus be the son of God when God has no wife? Can God have a wife? The Bible nowhere speaks of God having a wife; there is not the least suggestion of a sexual relationship between God and any of His creatures. <br /><br />It is Mormonism, a distortion of Christianity that believes this. This idea is just as repulsive to Catholics and Christians just as it is to Muslims for different reasons. Obviously there has been a misunderstanding. Some Muslims do not understand that a Christian does not believe in this type of sonship regarding Christ Jesus.</span></span></p> <p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Quran Sura<i> </i>5:17-18<i>: “</i>In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.” (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)” O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our apostles, lest ye should say: “There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)”: But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). <br /><br />And Allah hath power over all things.</span></span></p> <p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Here Mohammad states that not only is blasphemy to Christ the Son, but that anyone who calls themselves a son. Because of a misunderstanding of son meaning strictly offspring this erroneous conclusion is promoted. Although this sometimes used as it would be in the normal sense for anyone who is born into a human family.</span></span></p> <p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >In Matt 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham” Matt 21:9 “Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: “Hosanna to the Son of David! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' Hosanna in the highest!” Rom 1:3-6 “concerning <u>His Son Jesus Christ</u> our Lord, <u>who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh</u>, and <u>declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness</u>, by the resurrection from the dead. Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >It is not the intent to mean offspring when he is called the only- begotten son.</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >John 1:18 “No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” This in Greek means he alone is in a unique relationship with God, unlike any other person.</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Qur’an Sura 37:152-53 “God has begotten children”? but they are liars! Did He (then) choose daughters rather than sons?</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >It means for those who are believers that they are adopted by God, accepted as part of being in his family, as enjoined to him by being on his side because of their faith in God. John 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children (sons) of God, to those who believe in His name”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >“For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” (Rom. 8:15) “to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.” (Gal. 4:5) “having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (Eph. 1:5) All these Scriptures explain how we were bought by Christ’s death out of being slaves to Satan to serve God. <br /><br />This is meaning of adoption.</span></span></p> <p align="center"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b>The Father and the Son</b></span></span></p> <span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" > </span></span><p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >“The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!” (Sura 9:30)</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Jesus told us to pray 'Our Father who is in heaven' Can a Muslim pray this prayer with his heart? According to Islam not only is there no Son, but God is not Father. Did Jesus tell us the truth?</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Jesus said to his disciples, “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus' response was, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. Jesus attributes this revelation to God, to God-- not to man.</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The son of the father can take on a similar meaning found in their own Qur'an. Muhammad had an uncle whose name was Abdul Uza, but in the Qur'an he is called Abu Lahab - the father of a flame. This does not mean that he gave birth to a flame? (Qur'an Sura 111:1) Excuse me if any Arabic is not said right.</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >A wayfarer is called, Ibn as-sabeel - son of the road. <br /><br />This does not mean that the road has a wife and conceived a road even to a Muslim. (Qur'an Sura 2:177). Just as the Bible teaches God is the Father of lights, he did not beget light.</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Om ul-Kitab - means the mother of the book (Qur'an Sura 3:7; 13:39; 43:3). This does not mean she gave birth to the book. We want Muslims to understand what “son of” actually means in the Bible. It does not mean an offspring or in having sex with God. Son of God is used in a spiritual sense implying a unique relationship with God that no one else has. We call him the Son of God because the Bible states he is the Son of God, Jesus said He is the Son. To say he is not the Son of God when God says he is to deny God’s revelation! If this has Christ's own approval would it not be prudent to determine what He meant by this?</span></span></p> <p><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The Bible does use both Son and Father in a spiritual manner in Hebrew. <br /><br />God is called Abi-Ad the <u>Father of </u>eternity. Among the ancient Hebrews the term <i style="">Father of</i>, was always used to indicate Him who possessed the thing that followed.<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;"> </span>God the Father is called the <i style="">Father of</i> Spirits (Heb.12:9) and the<i style=""> Father of</i> lights (James.1:17).<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;"> </span>This again does not mean a literal begetting of light or Spirits. It shows God being the source of life as the Father of Spirits, the Father of lights means He is the source of the moon, the sun and stars. </span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The Old Testament has said in Malachi 2:10 “Have we not <u>all one Father</u>? Has not <u>one God created us</u>? Why do we deal treacherously with one another by profaning the covenant of the fathers?</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Malachi 1:6 “A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If then I am the Father, where is My honor? And if I am a Master, where is My reverence? Says the LORD of hosts to you priests who despise My name. Yet you say, 'In what way have we despised Your name?”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >God's Word is God Himself; he is not a second God. Muslims believe, God is all-powerful, there is nothing he cannot do. So God can certainly become a human being like us if he wanted to, can He not? The Qur'an does imply that Allah can appear in other forms, Sura 53:2-18, 81:19-24, so cannot God can take the form of man even temporarily?</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Jn.1:1 “and the Word was God” Mt.1:23 says <i>His name</i> will be called Immanuel (with us is <u>God</u>) the fulfillment of Isa.7:14. Luke 1:35 states, He will be called “The Son of God.” Mark begins his Gospel under Peters direction by saying, "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, <b>the Son of God</b>." (Mark 1:1)</span></span></p> <span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;"> </span></span><p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">The Bible says,“do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, <b>'I am the Son of God'</b>?” (John 10:36)<span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >“for He said, <b>‘I am the Son of God</b>.” (Matthew 27:43). </span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">Consider that the</span><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" > Qur’an says, “In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary” (Sura 5:17) or Sura 10:68-70<b> </b>They say: “God hath begotten a son!” “Those who invent a lie against God will never prosper.”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The Bible says, “but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, <b>the Son of God</b>, and that believing you may have life in His name.” (John 20:31).</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Paul a Jew was converted by seeing the risen Christ on the road as he was going to kill Christians for following Jesus the Messiah. After his conversion “Immediately he preached the Christ (Messiah) in the synagogues, that He is <b>the Son of God</b>.” (Acts 9:20).</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of <u>the only begotten from the Father</u>, full of grace and truth<span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >” </span>(John 1:14) The eternal nature and purpose of Christ is challenged by Islam. </span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">For even God who is the Father said, “<b>The Father loves the Son</b>, and has given all things into His hand.” (John 3:35)</span></span></span></p> <p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">“For <b>the Father loves the Son</b>, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.” (John 5:20);</span></span></span></p> <p align="justify"><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">Jesus said “As <b>the Father loved Me</b>, I also have loved you; abide in My love” (John 15:9-10)</span></span></span></p> <p> <span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-family:Times New Roman;">For God so loved the world, <u>that He gave His only begotten Son</u>, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life<span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >” </span> (John 3:16) The essence of the Gospel is denied without a Son of God.</span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >The Qur’an says, “In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary” (Sura 5:17)</span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Is it? We have the evidence from Scriptural manuscripts that are close to the originals, and those that predate the apostles. <br /><br />Along with this Jesus saying God does indeed call another His ONLY Son. Not an offspring but a term of relationship.</span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-size:100%;">It was the same apostle John who taught Jesus was the son and was eternal that also said; we should keep ourselves from idols (1 John 5:21). This would be a calculated contradiction if Jesus being the Son was worshipped by the apostles and were a mere human, that would be an idol, as only God is to be worshipped.</span></span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >1 Jn.4:15 “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, God dwelleth in him and he in God.” Here is the difference of religion to relationship. <br /><br />John who knew Jesus personally explains that God who is able to do all things, where nothing is impossible with God took up residence by his spirit in those who believe in Jesus as the Bible teaches.</span></span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >Paul the apostle says in Galatians 4:6 “And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” V:7 “Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” We have a relationship change when one believes in Christ as God’s only son, we are not slaves any longer but friends and will inherit what God has for us. No slave enjoyed what his master owned. We know this by God’s word and by experience. Psalm 89:26 “He shall cry to Me, 'You are my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >This all takes place because of the Injil (the Gospel of the apostles and Christ) by Jesus’ death for sin he has shown the invisible God’s love. Col. 1:13-14 “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >God prophesying through the prophet Zechariah Zech. 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and <u>on the inhabitants of Jerusalem</u> the Spirit of grace and supplication; then <u>they will look on Me whom they have pierced</u>; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.”</span></span></p> <p><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" ><span style=";font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;" >You may not want to accept this, at least not now. But the point being made here is that this is the revelation of Jesus to the apostles and God can surely watch over his word. As He said not one jot or tittle are to be changed. God has always been the same and His word is proof, as it never changes and God does not lie. If Muslims and other religions would look at the history of the Bible and see the evidence of it not being corrupted, they may not speak so loosely about the prophets they are supposed to esteem.</span></span></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-4296881087470830992010-04-17T14:59:00.001-07:002010-04-17T15:01:21.157-07:00Is Islam a fake?<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/fake%20islam.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/fake%20islam.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />IS ISLAM A FAKE? <h3>By Ahmed Simon</h3> <p> <b>ABOUT THE DECEIT IN ISLAM</b> </p><p>Warning – This article is for men, women and children who have the ability to think. </p> <p>Human beings are born free, are Free to talk, Free to choose our friends and free to do whatever we THINK we want to do. Our laws are enshrined with all these cardinal points of various individual freedoms, especially in non-Muslim nations. And above all, the greatest freedom we have is the freedom of thought. Absolute followers cannot and will never be freethinkers. Just like sheep, they need only brainlessly follow like morons. The choices rational human beings make, are based on their individual capacity to THINK for themselves. Freedom in thought to believe in anything we want, is our greatest asset. If we think something is not to our needs, we can rethink and are free to change our minds. It is up to the rational thinking person to THINK and come to a conclusion and act as concluded. From the creation of man, God gave us the brain to THINK critically and held us responsible for our actions from the very beginning of the human race. The true genuine nature of God demands and expects rational thinking of his created humans.</p> <p>In Islam, Allah (Muslim God) demands believers (Muslims) to surrender to him completely and to obey his every command in the Quran in its totality. Allah states in the Quran that everything recorded in the Quran are of his own words. Allah’s unconditional demands in the Quran to his followers are absolute. Muslim scholars of more then 200 Islamic sects, agree, confirm and believe this is absolutely true, and it is mandatory to obey Allah’s commands in the Quran, with no reservation of any kind by every Muslim. (No ‘buts’ allowed).</p> <ol><li>The Quran is a book of an imperfect scripture (with errors, contradictions, stupidities, historical inaccuracies and with only 114 chapters against the Bible’s 1,179 chapters). The chapters of the Quran are not arranged in importance, continuity, sacredness, biography, chronology, significance or sequence of any sort, but are arranged simply by length - the longest chapter, followed by the next longest chapter and the last chapter with just 6 lines. Verses are disorderly arranged and jumbled up in unrelated subjects/topics. Christians will be horrified to know that there is no prophecy, no chronology, no geography, no biography of anybody (not even Muhammad), no ministry, no history, no proverbs, no parables, no miracles, no psalms, no sequence of any sort in the Quran; and generally is just do’s and don’t, like an instruction book of a vacuum cleaner; and with punitive punishments, reprisals and rewards specified. In stark contrast, the Bible is the only religious scripture in this entire world (which contains everything the Quran does not have, as mentioned above, and which begins chronologically with the creation of this universe and the human race; and ends with the universe and the human race. No other religious Scripture, anywhere in this world, can categorically state such a Complete Testimony of the universe and the human race and that too in an accurate chronological setting from the beginning to the end. The Quran is not a book for the intelligent and the rational thinking person, as I will prove its illogic, fraud and stupidity in the following items, which makes it a fake. </li><li>In view of Allah’s demand on believers for absolute and unconditional obedience, Allah states categorically, (Sura 33.36) [“And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and his messenger have decided an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and his messenger, he verily go astray in error manifest.”] So believers (Muslims) have no right to think independently in their own affairs, because Allah and his messenger have already done the thinking for them, and all the Muslims are required to do is, to just obey (like sheep) their Allah’s words as in the Quran, and becoming totally obedient morons. If Muslims do not obey and follow, they will be considered by Allah as rebellious and face the consequences. But, in the same breath (Sura) Allah also demands Muslims to obey his human messenger (giving equal status as mentioned) with Allah? No other religion on earth demands absolute and unconditional obedience to a human messenger. This is unique only in Islam and defies all logic. In stark contrast, the Christian Bible in the words of the Lord, demand followers to have independent rational thinking and to even test/question/challenge all prophets rationally for the truth. Why shouldn’t Muslims use their God-given brains for independent rational thinking in their own affairs, as the Christians do? Like a magician, once he gets people to believe in his optical illusions, he has complete control of everything he wants people to believe. By taking control of your mind, and getting other believers to force those not in control, is this not depriving Muslims from questioning and leaving Islam if the need be? Either you believe or are forced by believers to conform and hold the grip. Almost everything in Islam is forced upon, with no choices, and against rational thinking people’s will. Exceptional rewards are promised to believers, to keep Muslims within Islam’s grip. Islam is sure a trap with no way out, and if a Muslim tries to get out, will be killed as an apostate (Sura 4:89). Isn’t this why Muslims dare not criticise Muslims who commit murder, bombings, etc? So, with no rational thinking allowed, Islam has proved itself to be a trap. Is this from God or a fake religion? </li><li>Once someone gets control of believers in an ideology, then it will work its way up, just like communism did; who got control of half the world at one time. People who got thinking rationally, and wise to communism and its propaganda of claims, and it eventually fell to obscurity. Truth always has a way of emerging victorious in the end. In the same light, Allah claims in numerous verses that all Jewish prophets are believers in Islam and ‘confirms’ these Jewish prophets to be ‘Muslims’. But the problem here is that Allah did not say in his Quran, who all these Jewish prophets were, to inform his believers who are in the dark now. There is no complete list of these Jewish prophets, in the Quran; leave alone proof of them being ‘Muslims’; and that too even before the Quran was invented? Are those Jewish prophets who are not mentioned in the Quran, (but mentioned in the Jewish/Christian scriptures) part of Allah’s Scripture or not? And how did these Jewish prophets know about Allah/Islam, when the Quran did not exist yet (which was invented only after (at least) 786 A.D. 154 years after Muhammad was poisoned to death in 632 A.D.; (see “The Invention of Islam”)? Whereas, Jesus was recorded by the Apostles who lived with him (and the Quran/Allah have the cheek to claim the bible is corrupted). There is not a single acceptable historical record of any Jewish Prophet having been a Muslim. Just claiming does not make them ‘Muslims’, does it? Of all the people, Jews/Jewish prophets really accepting Islam? Jews are laughing at these claims, and wondering why Muslims are making claims on Jews (like Abraham, Noah, etc), which even astounds Christians. The Jews are so passionate of their Jewishness that the majority of Jews did not even accept Jesus, a Jew; just because Jesus removed the barbaric Jewish beliefs of the previous era and made it obsolete, which the Muslims have blindly copied and are following, even today. Would the Jews accept Muhammad, an Arab, or any Arab for that matter? It’s not even remotely possible, right? Because of all these, it is a fact that Allah/Quran is lying and Islam is a fake. </li><li>Allah claims in Sura 3:50 that he revealed the Torah and in Sura 5:48 Allah claims he revealed the Gospel and the Torah. So was Allah revealing to Jesus the Gospel - about his trial in front of Pontius Pilate, whispering in Jesus’ ears of all the happenings around the fourteen Stations of the Cross, about Jesus’ shout to God, the torn temple curtain, the earthquake, the breaking open of graves, the Roman army officer’s response, about the Romans fleeing; and foretelling Jesus in ‘detailed whispers’ of all the numerous events to follow, while Jesus was bleeding in agony? These are all part and parcel of the Gospel. So did Allah reveal this entire Gospel to Jesus as Allah claims? It does sound absurd, ridiculous and plain stupid, doesn’t it? Allah further claims All Jewish/Christian Scriptures came from him, but he mentioned only the Torah and the Gospel in the Quran. The problem here is that the Torah is only 5 out of the thirty-nine books – just 12.8% of the total Jewish Scripture (Judaism counts them as 24 books only, because they join some together in the Tanakh). For the Bible, Allah mentioned just an Injil (Gospel). But there are four Injil (Gospels). In Sura 5:46 Allah clearly claims he revealed the Gospel (Not in the plural form) to Jesus. So which Injil (Gospel) did he refer to? Because the Quran says baby Jesus talked in his cradle, from this, we can assume it was the Gospel of Luke, since only Luke’s gospel described the birth of Christ. But there is a problem here, because less than 10% of this very Gospel is in the Quran. (But the Allah’s ridiculous tale of baby Jesus talking in his cradle – is a laughable joke to Christians?) Even if we take one whole Gospel, from a total of 66 books – it is just 1.5% of the Bible only. The Torah is NOT the Jewish Scripture, but just a very small part; and the Gospel of Luke is NOT the Christian Scripture, but just a tiny part of it. And this Allah has the cheek to claim ALL scriptures of Judaism and Christianity to be in his Quran - Where? (Is it in invisible ink, because I don’t see it in the Quran?) It is no wonder that so little of the Torah and the Gospel of Luke are mentioned in the Quran leaving out most of the prophets from the Bible and that too inaccurately. The Quran is relatively a small scripture book; that one will need three Qurans to transfer everything from one Jewish scripture; leave alone the Bible, which is even more voluminous. It is clear and obvious this Allah doesn’t know ALL the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity, which he falsely claims he revealed, but is obviously lying wholesale, to ignorant Muslims. It is also obvious that only some parts of the Torah and Gospel of Luke were plagiarized/copied. How did Jewish prophets become Muslims in pre-Islamic times and that too before the Quran was invented is a ridiculous claim? If this Allah is God, shouldn’t he have known all this? So, isn’t this Allah not a God – but a fake; a non-existent creation of Muhammad? Since Allah is a fake, doesn’t it confirm that Islam is a fake? </li><li>In Islamic Sects, a religious structure does not exist or even specified anywhere in the Quran, Hadiths or Sunna. Unlike Christian Sects, who all have a proper structural hierarchy with leaders/representatives? But in Islam, the Sunni sect, has no leader for all Sunni followers or the Shia (Shiite) for all their followers, and so forth. Why did Allah leave this state of chaos in Islam? Couldn’t he have anticipated or foretold that Muslims will end up killing (even in mosques) each other from different sects, like it is happening now in Indonesia, Bangla Desh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, etc. Why did Allah fail to see this happening? Even if Allah failed, why couldn’t and do not Muslims themselves get together to have a leader/representative? A Sunni Muslim cannot even lead/represent/talk for all Sunnis. Why cann’t Muslims solve this problem, even today? Let me tell you why – because Islam is a fake. </li><li>Arabs in front of the Kaaba in Mecca, were initially facing it for all prayers in pre-Islamic times. Arabs beyond did not have to, as per the Hindu practice of respect. (As for facing the Kaaba - the Hindus always show respect in facing their respected/venerated as it was in pre-Islamic times). Then comes Allah demanding ALL Muslims to face only Jerusalem instead, for all Muslim prayers (as in Sura 2:142-145). Hundreds of years later, Allah changed his mind and demanded all Muslims to face only the Kaaba to pray, all over again, when the Quran was finally invented. During the time the Muslims were facing Jerusalem, the Muslims in between these two cities were showing their backsides to the Kaaba. Why did Muslims disrespect the Kaaba in this way on Allah’s orders? Was Allah’s first command wrong? Why was this Allah so fickle minded? Why should All worldwide Muslims, face the Kaaba to pray in the first place? Or for that matter if God is everywhere, why face only in one direction to pray? Is Allah squatting only in the Kaaba? How did this come about? From pre-Islamic rituals - In Hinduism it is disrespectful not to face someone/something in holiness or to a person in high regard, like a king, parents, grandparents, etc when in communication (See “the Invention of Islam”). Thus, Hindus who are in front, face them in respect, - never the back towards them. See next item. </li><li>In sura 15:19 Allah says that the Earth is flat (and not a sphere) “ the earth spread out (like a carpet)” and to drum this “scientific Islamic theory of a flat earth” into the believers (Muslims), it is also repeated in 20:53 as a bed, & 43:10 as a resting place, & 78:6 as an expanse, & 84:3 spread out, & 88:20 spread. As if that is not enough stupidity, Allah goes further and confirms in Sura 18:87 the sun sets everyday in a muddy spring water on the earth, and people living there. How one would get a huge sun to land on such a relatively tiny planet like earth, sends all logic out the window. The burning fires of the Sun (thousands of degrees centigrade) will set the whole earth into a ball of fire and disintegrate it in just a millisecond, even before it gets within 1 Million Kilometers of earth. Where this spherical world has “its setting-place”, defies all logic and is sheer stupidity by this Allah, or is it actually this Muhammad speaking that Sura, on his behalf? The sun being a ball of fire and cannot even come a little bit closer, does not seem to have dawned on this Allah YET, since the Quran is meant for all time, so technically, even now Allah thinks the earth is flat and the sun sets everyday on earth. This Allah thought he was cleverer than the Hindus and decided to be one up on them and made it compulsory for ALL the Muslims to face the Kaaba to pray (or was it this Muhammad, actually?). And why not, he thought; since he imagined the world is as flat as a carpet and a bed. But when the world is a sphere as it actually is, the Muslims have ended facing the outer space instead, due to this Allah’s stupidity, and it makes a mockery of all believers (Muslims) trying to strain their necks round the spherical world. This has become a comic of errors with Muslims straining everyday (5 times each day) to face the Kaaba and failing to do so. So isn’t Allah a fake, especially, if he ‘claims’ he created it? Or is it Muhammad and his cronies, who actually invented the Quran, who not only thought the earth is flat, but his other “Scientific Islamic theory” of the Sun revolving round the earth in sura 39:5 – how ‘scientific’ all this Allah’s Quranic knowledge sounds, especially to the nut-cases? With so many illogical and stupid verses in the Quran, I cannot imagine anyone saying that Islam is from a true God. In other words, Islam is a fake. </li><li>The Quran was at the least, a minimum of 154 years in the making, AFTER Muhammad died (In the maximum - it could have even been hundreds of years in the making –see the Invention of Islam). But what is known for sure; is that there were many people involved and coined verses; in the making of the Quran (Muhammad and his 700 companions, Muhammad’s wives, concubines, temporary wives, slaves, relatives, friends, scribes – (at least one was a Christian, who the Arabs accused of inventing the Quran for Muhammad), two caliphs, and Zayed Ibn Thabit who compiled, recompiled and re-recompiled, and edited and reedited and even withdrew the initially distributed Qurans under Abu Bakr, and had them burnt. Is it because Satan had a hand in the making of the Quran as admitted in Sura 22:52? How much is Satan’s part in this Quran is left to the One True God? Wasn’t Allah strong enough to thwart Satan’s work in the very first instance? All this is confirmed as proof, by none other than Allah himself, in his own words, in the Quran. In Sura 2.106 Allah clearly states [“Such of Our revelations as We abrogate (cancel)(Naskh) or cause to be forgotten, we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things.”] Now if this Allah ‘is able to do all things’, then why didn’t this Allah get it right the very first time, (as the Christian Bible) instead of canceling and replacing lots of Sura? Why did this Allah write a sura and then replace it with a better sura? By replacing with a better sura, Allah is admitting all his initial sura were not ‘better’? And what does “cause to be forgotten” got to do with canceling and replacing some sura? As if this is not deceitful enough; Allah has to repeat this deceit in Sura 16:101 saying, [“And when we put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - And Allah knoweth best what He revealeth – they say: Lo! Thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.”] So it is obvious from this Sura, that there were Arabs already saying this is a deceitful inventing, right? So even the Arab people of Muhammad’s time knew Islam is (artificially) being invented. If “Allah knoweth best” his words sure don’t show it by his own admissions? Even Allah doesn’t dismiss all of those Arabs who saw through this deceit, but says only “most of them”, he doesn’t say ‘all of them’, does he? That leaves Allah to admit to some of the Arabs, of his deceitful and fake Islam. Why did this Allah waste so much time writing, canceling, rewriting; writing, replacing, rewriting, - did this Allah have nothing else useful to do? Or is it not a ‘God’ who is admitting all this, but just an ordinary man, as this self-appointed prophet (with no witnesses to his prophetship) of Islam or is it all the other people who had a hand in the making of the Quran? I know why these admissions were made because; people knew the Quran was changed and corrupted from the initially distributed Qurans and some admission became necessary to justify its corruption and changes. So Islam confirms itself to be a fake by its own admissions. What more is there to say, except to agree with the Quran’s own admissions, that Islam is corrupted and changed, making it a fake. </li><li>As you already know in item 4, Allah claimed that it was he who revealed the Jewish and Christian Scriptures to the Jews/Christians. But, in Sura 2:159 Allah says, [“Those who hide the proofs and the Guidance which We had made it clear in the Scriptures: such are accursed of Allah and accursed of those who have the power to curse.”] Now there are a lot of questions here unanswered with this Sura. 1. Why did Allah want the scriptures he supposedly gave to the Jews/Christians? 2. If Allah was indeed a God, couldn’t he, by just flicking his fingers, taken the scriptures back? 3. Were the Jews and Christians so powerful to hide their scriptures from this Allah? 4. In the same tone, was Allah so weak in comparison with the Jews/Christians? 5. Since he claims, it is he who gave the Scriptures, isn’t there anything left of it, in his memory? 6. What kind of a God is this Allah, if the Jews and Christians can hide something from him? 7.Why is this Allah cursing the Jews/Christians for hiding their own scriptures? 8. If this Allah “made it clear” surely he should be able to reproduce it, instead of cursing. Or did he want it to plagiarize/copy in full into the Quran? So who is this powerless Allah? Is it this Muhammad himself who is saying all this? Whatever the answers, and whether it is Allah or Muhammad speaking, it surely, without a doubt, indicates that Islam is a fake. Probably, who ever was inventing this Quran, might not have been able to proceed properly without plagiarizing/copying from the Jews/Christians. Like in Sura 2:140, [“Or say ye that Abraham and Ismael, and Isaac, and Jacob, or the tribes were Jews and Christians? Do ye know best, or doth Allah? And who is more unjust than he who hideth a testimony, which he had received from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what ye do.”] Here again Allah/Muhammad is threatening the Jews and Christians for hiding their own testimony (Scriptures)(Hiding scripture also repeated in 3:187). Why do they need the scriptures if not to copy into the Quran? So by killing and wiping out the Jews and Christians in Saudi Arabia, there ended a situation, with no one with knowledge or possession of the Scriptures of the Jews and the Christians. So Muhammad’s savage misdeeds backfired on him for his new religion and he paid the price for it. But, think about it, the possibility would have been there, when Muhammad and his 700 companions raided innocent Jewish and Christian Villages and robbed their properties, there could have been the Jewish and Christian Scriptures among them. Can you imagine what would have happened if they did manage to copy/plagiarize everything into the Quran (other than the Quran being bloated 10 times in volume). It is very unlikely, that the more than 150,000 Jews and Christians living in Saudi Arabia before Muhammad, would not have had their scriptures with them. The irony is that none of Muhammad and his companions could read or write – So even seeing them, would not have known, that what they were looking for all along, was destroyed by their own hands by the spirit of our Lord’s intervention, so burying Islam as a fake cult to the stupidity it contains, today. </li><li>The Muslims are quick to condemn the Jewish and Christian scriptures as changed and corrupted. This theory has been laughed at, mocked, made fun of, scorned and condemned in the Maddrassahs by Muslims for Muslims. But when one questions a Muslim clergy what part or the specifics of the corruption, they suddenly fall into a trance and become instantly dumb. Their clergy, to cover up the mistakes/contradictions and stupidities in the Quran, tell almost all Muslims this theory in their Islamic education from childhood and repeated and repeated over and over again. This is to keep the Muslims from giving up Islam, if they knew the truth of the Quran being changed and corrupted. The best way of defense is to go on the offensive, right? To cover up the Quran’s corruption, what better way, to lie and condemn the others in defense of their Allah? So the Muslims shamelessly perpetuate this lie, time after time with no proof of any Jewish and Christian Scripture’s corruption. The Quran states in Sura 10:64-65, [“Those who believe and keep their duty (to Allah). Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter – There is no changing in the words of Allah (in the Quran) – That is the supreme Triumph.”] No changing in the words of Allah? Lets look at another verse; in Sura 6:34, [“… There is none to alter the decisions of Allah.”] Allah goes further and commands Muhammad in Sura 10:95, [“And is thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those (Christians) who read the scripture (that was) before thee (Bible). So be not thou of the waverers.”] >From this Sura we can see that Allah is asking Muhammad to ask Christians, whenever, he is in doubt about the Quran. So here you have a so-called ‘prophet’ who is told by a so-called God, to learn from ordinary Christians, to clear his doubts. So what kind of a ‘prophet’ is this Muhammad, when even Allah wants him to seek the Christians’ help for Islam? Now we come to the coup de grace for the faux pas. In the Arabic Quran, Sura 27:91, reads [“I am commanded only to serve the Lord of this land which he had Hallowed, and unto him all things belong. And I am commanded to be of those who surrender.”] Now if all the words in the Quran are from Allah, then ‘I’ refers to Allah. So the Question is, who has commanded Allah according to this sura? And is this Allah serving a Lord? If this Sura is true, then Allah is not God, because a True God does not have to serve anyone, right? Why then is the Quran declaring Allah is not a God? Obviously, this proves Allah is a fake, which makes the Quran/Islam a fake. I must also point out that the most recognized English translation (recognized by the OIC) is the M.M. Pickthall Quran. He must have been horrified to recognize this corruption in the Quran and he cleverly tried to cover this up, by adding the word ‘Say’ as though Allah is telling Muhammad to say and Muhammad’s name in brackets, to imply as though, “(Say): I (Muhammad) am commanded only to serve the Lord…” But M.M. Pickthall was not clever enough for his deceit to cover up for Allah. Because if it is Muhammad speaking, then it would contradict Sura 10:65 and Sura 6:34 as mentioned above; wherein Allah says his words in the Quran cannot be changed. And in Sura 10:39 [“Or say they: He hath invented it? Say: then bring a surah like unto it, and call on all ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful.”] This Sura confirms that only Allah speaks in the Quran. For the skeptics, let me give another example as in 19:64, [“We come not down save by commandment of thy Lord. Unto him belongeth all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between those two, and thy Lord was never forgetful – “]. M.M. Pickthall solved this problem in the Quran by deceitfully adding the word ‘angels’ in brackets, thus; [“We (angels) come not down save by commandment of thy Lord…”] But the problem is that it is confirming the Angels are the ones speaking in the Quran, right? This completely changed the connotation/dynamics of this Sura. The question here needs answering, is the Quran only the words of Allah, or is it a free for all, to state their views? As there are a number of Angels, Muhammad, Allah, etc speaking in the Quran, right? Or if Allah was the speaker of these Sura, then it is wrong, as he is not the God he claimed to be. If someone else is speaking these Sura, it is also wrong, because then the words in the Quran are not ONLY from Allah, as claimed by the Quran. It is a catch-22 situation, where the Muslim scholars cannot deny neither solve. The Muslims are themselves, trapped with so many of such sura in the Quran. Either way or whichever way, one interprets these Sura; the fact remains THE QURAN IS CORRUPTED/CHANGED, AND SO IS ISLAM/ALLAH A FAKE. This is an undeniable truth. These numerous deceits in Islam, especially when perpetrated on its own believers (Muslims) are despicable, false, wicked, shameful, disgraceful and plain EVIL. All these prove without a doubt, ISLAM IS CORRUPTED AND A FAKE. I rest my case.</li></ol> <p>Dear Readers, please send this article to as many people as possible, to keep them informed. Thank You.</p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-69493601280931689592010-04-17T14:55:00.004-07:002010-04-20T03:06:48.742-07:00Islam and Homosexuality<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/muslimflagay.0.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/muslimflagay.0.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);font-size:160%;" ><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />These are the words from a famous Arab poem by poet, Abu Nawas.<br /><br /><br /><br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style=";font-family:";font-size:12;" ><br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style=";font-family:";font-size:12;" ><br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style=";font-family:";font-size:12;" > 'Perfumed Garden' by Abu Nuwas:<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">O the joy of sodomy!<br />So now be sodomites, you Arabs.<br />Turn not away from it--<br />therein is wondrous pleasure.<br />Take some coy lad with kiss-curls<br />twisting on his temple<br />and ride as he stands like some gazelle<br />standing to her mate.<br />A lad whom all can see girt with sword<br />and belt not like your whore who has<br />to go veiled.<br />Make for smooth-faced boys and do your<br />very best to mount them, <b>for women are<br />the mounts of the devils</b><br /></span><br /><b>Islam PROMOTES homosexuality in truth</b><br /><br />For the last 2600 years, the Muslims and their ancestral tribal sects have practiced pederasty! When Muhammad formed the Muslim religion he took pederast practices of the region, mixed it with the Greek pederast views and formed a religion.<br /><br />That is, <b>the Muslim's have practiced 'same sex pedophilia'!</b> While their beliefs regulate that a woman must be a virgin at marriage, sex is not forbidden to either men or women. That is, <b>sex between same sex is encouraged, and so long as it is done it the 'proper Muslim' way.</b> As with the Greek culture, adult men are encouraged to form relationships with young men just reaching puberty. These adult men, are then encouraged to form a sexual relationship with these young men.<br /><br />The whole system 'stinks', since the adult Muslim men are taught to perform homosexual sex upon the young men. It is so warped, in that, as long as an adult male 'gives' sex to the younger man, it is accepted. The younger man, is then expected to do the same to a young man, once he reaches maturity. Homosexuality is separated into compartments within the Muslim culture. If an adult male sodomizes a younger male (8-14), then he is still in control, and not committing a sex crime according to their warped Scriptures. And once the 'sodomized young male' reaches maturity, he must also continue with the tradition, sodomizing younger males.<br /><br />Since we have all heard about the 'beheading' aspect of the Muslim religion, regarding homosexuality, let me explain. If an adult male decides that he likes to have sodomy performed on him, he is now considered 'gay', and not 'homosexual'. If a man is considered 'gay', he will be 'beheaded' in the Muslim religion. It is all about control, and some warped concept of 'manhood'.<br /><br />Looking at the women of the Muslim religion, many women belong to harems. The rich sheiks of the Muslim religion, also have a 'control issue' going on with the women of the region. Women are purchased from families, in order to control the bloodlines. Unless a man of this region has money or power, he must choose from the lowliest and plainest of women to marry. This further enhances the 'elitist regime' the Muslim's are so fond of…<br /><br /><b>Sheiks are known to have dozen's of wives and even more concubines in which to have sex with. This would leave the 'wives' with many nights that they would not see their husband, and therefore their only source of sexual pleasure.</b> (Adultery is punishable by death, and even the accusation holds the death penalty).<br /><br />And yet, adultery, in the Muslim religion, is only concerned with heterosexual sex. Women in harem's are known to learn lesbian ways. So much so, that the men of the Muslim religion, began to perform the clitoridectomy, to keep the women from practicing lesbian relations.<br /><br />I would like to take you into the Muslim/Islam Culture, and show that for the last 2,600 years or more, <b>this culture has practiced 'Limited Homosexuality'. In fact, this culture PROMOTES HOMOSEXUAL PEDERASTY, as a way to retain Virgin women to marry.</b> What we have here, is some 'highly sexed' individuals, that refuse to curtail their behavior, rather, they will force sex upon young people, in order to retain their 'so called' strict regime of 'sexual doctrine' of the Muslim faith.<br /><br /><b>ISLAM AND HEAVEN</b><br /><br />Firstly, the Muslim rulers sincerely held that faith in Islam meant the guarantee of houris, the most beautiful virgins that one can imagine.<b> Paradise is the abode of polygamy where men have all the rights to sexual indulgence and women are loaded with the obligations to please them.</b> Thus, the Muslim rulers and nobles of India treated sexuality as a form of worship without having any moral qualm at all.<br /><br /><b>Islam maximises the sexual scope not only in this world but also declares carnal enjoyment as the goal of life-after-death, which can be achieved by gaining entry into paradise through the agency of the Prophet Muhammad only.</b> This philosophy has devastated the Muslim mind all over the world: it is opium which keeps believers in a state of insensibility; <b>they forget all about realities of life and moral obligation to enjoy the delightful vagaries of make-believe saturated with sexual sweetness.<br /><br /></b>The cosmic order of the Quran is intentionally incomplete.<br /><br />Man needs to engage in holy war to make other men submit to the will of G-d to complete the order. <b>It is the duty of Muslim men to initiate non-Muslims into Islam by method of submission.</b> The Nafs (non-Muslims) are conceptualized as passive males. This implies an erotic element of the holy war of submission. <b>In a sense, initiation and submission into Islam entails conquering non-Muslims by sexual aggression: fighting passive sodomy with active sodomy. This is obviously a contradiction and supports keeping silence on the issue.</b><br /><br />To encounter effects of Feminine Charm, Islam has exploited man's dominance urge, which demands sexual gratification by command (instead of solicitation or submission), and thus stimulated the male lek behaviour, leading to harem-building.<br /><br /><br />To understand ancient views of homosexuality, it is important to recognize that the "superstitious" ancients distinguished (1) sexual penetration of "non-males" (i.e., men who were either naturally impotent with women or castrated) from (2) sexual penetration of "males" — maleness being defined as the capacity to play the male role in procreation. Prior to the advent of rational philosophy, the ancient world generally considered the first category to be acceptable, in some cases even sanctified, while on the other hand, sexual penetration of adult free males was universally condemned as being opposed to and destructive of the nature of the male. The sexual use of free boys and beardless youths was controversial because of their ambiguous status as pre-males, and where it was allowed it was strictly controlled, as in ancient Greece. The sexual use of male slaves was permitted because slaves were not accountable for and had no rights regarding the use of their bodies, which belonged to their owners.<br /><br />Of course, human history is full of predators known as conquerors, who carried out murder, persecution and abduction of women to satisfy their lust for power, plunder and prestige. <b>They knew that their misdeeds were sheer acts of barbarity dictated by personal ambitions but Jihad, the behest of Allah to destroy non-Muslims, not only sanctified these atrocities, but also raised them to the apex of piety, purity and probity."<br /><br />ISLAM'S STRUGGLE AGAINST HINDUISM</b><br /><br />Secondly, the Muslim rulers of India were determined to impress the Hindus with their power, pomp and prestige.<br /><br />They wanted to appear as extraordinary kings, whose might, magnificence and martial excellence must be acknowledged by their Hindu subjects. After all, running harems of several thousand women bubbling with beauty and zest, is not a child's play. <b>Of course, the Hindu Rajahs also had their seraglios <u>but they ranked as sinful brothels because the Vedas do not stamp lust, lechery and lewdness with piety, purity and probity.</u></b><br /><br />However, in Islam, the situation is totally different;<b> it is morally and legally right to murder non-Muslims for abducting their women with a view to turning them into concubines; having sexual intercourse with them is no sin; even flogging and selling them at will is permissible.</b><br /><br />This points to the fact that the term "homosexuality" is used with many different meanings, and it is indeed very important to expose and overcome an underlying confusion of terms which goes unnoticed here as well, and which is firmly rooted in the popular imagination and has not been thoroughly abandoned even by science. It has enormous impact, because it causes barriers to understanding and communication that may even have disastrous practical consequences.<br /><br /><b>THE NATURAL EUNUCH</b><br /><br />The Qur'an generally scorns "approaching males in lust", as well as the castration of males, as the sin of the people of Lot (Qur'an 7:81, 26:165-166, 27:55, 29:28-29).<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">7:81: "Indeed you approach males in lust excluding women…"<br /><br />Arabic: "Innakum lata'toona ar-rijaala shahwatan min doon in-nisaa'i."<br /><br />26:165-166: "You approach the males of the worlds and forsake those whom your Lord has created for you for your mates."<br /><br />Arabic: "Ata'toona adh-dhukraana min al-'aalameena, wa tadharoona ma khalaqa lakum Rabbukum min azwaajikum."<br /><br />27:55: "Will you indeed approach males in lust excluding women?"<br /><br />Arabic: "A 'innakum lata'toona ar-rijaala shahwatan min doon in-nisaa'i?"<br /><br />29:28-29 "Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you; What! do you come unto the males and cut the passageways [i.e. vas deferens and/or urethra] and do so in your private clubs?"<br /><br />Arabic: "Innakum lata'toona al-faahishata ma sabaqakum biha min ahadin mina al-'aalameena. Innakum lata'toona ar-rijaala wa taqta'oona as-sabeela wa ta'toona fee naadikumu?"</span><br /><br /><b>But the Qur'an does not prohibit using, as passive sex partners, the ancient category of men who by nature lacked desire for women, since such men were not considered "male" as a result of their lack of arousal for women.</b><br /><br />This kind of man is often known as "gay" in modern times, but in the ancient world he was identified as an anatomically whole "natural eunuch." <u>Although the Qur'an never uses the word eunuch [khasiyy], the hadith and the books of the legal scholars do. Furthermore, the Qur'an recognizes that some men are "without the defining skill of males" (24:31: "ghair oolaa il-irbati min ar-rijaali") and so, as domestic servants, are allowed to see women naked. This is a reference to natural eunuchs, i.e. gay men.<br /><br /></u><b>HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY BY STRAIGHT MEN</b><br /><br />Homosexual activity by homosexuals (eunuchs) is not spoken of in the Qur'an, <u>which mentions only the unjust homosexual rape perpetrated by straight men against other straight men.</u> Besides the Lut story, sexual exploitation of straight males is also alluded to in the assurance that prophet Joseph's slaveholders "abstained from him" (12:20: "wa kaanuu feehi min az-zaahideen").<br /><br /><b>But the Qur'an and hadith also have traces of the permitted homosexual desires of straight men. There is even a hadith in Bukhari, admittedly giving not the Prophet's opinion but that of Abu Jafar, according to which a pedophile is prohibited from marrying the mother of his boy-beloved if there is penetration:</b><br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">(Bukhari LXII, 25) As for whom(ever) plays with a boy: if he caused him to enter him, then he shall not marry his mother.<br /><br />Arabic: feeman yal'abu bis-sabiyy: in 'adkhalahu feehi falaa yatazawwajanna 'ummahu.<br /><br /></span>(This rule is accompanied in the same chapter by prohibitions against a man marrying both a mother and her daughter.)<b> Apparently according to this hadith, even sexual penetration of a boy is not considered sodomy, because if it was, surely the sodomite would have more worries than whether he could marry the boy's mother!</b><br /><br />Like whether he preferred to die by fire, stoning, or falling from a high tower! These are some of the punishments mentioned in the hadith for "doing as the people of Lut did."<br /><br />The distinction between pederasty (sex with boys) and sodomy (penetration of "males") was commonly, albeit not universally maintained throughout the ancient world, and indeed survived throughout most of the history of Islam until at least the nineteenth century (in spite of the futile objections of some medieval scholars). Apparently, boy-love was considered okay by many people because, like "natural eunuchs," underage boys also lacked the "defining skill of males" (sexual potency with women).<b> The Qur'an itself gives support to pederasts in its glimpses of paradise:</b><br /><br /><span style="color:red;">52:17-29 And they shall have boys [ghilmaan] circulating among them as if they were hidden pearls.<br /><br />56:22-23 and dark-eyed ones [hoorun 'eenun], the like of hidden pearls<br /><br />76:19 And immortal boys [wildaanun mukhalladoona] will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls.<br /><br />2:25 And they shall have immaculate partners [azwaajun mutahharatun] in [the gardens] …<br /><br />4:57 And they shall have immaculate partners [azwaajun mutahharatun] in them …<br /><br /></span>One of the great male Sufi contemporaries of Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya <b>provided a divine justification for a pederastic relationship, which was repeated without a hint of disapproval in a 10th century book about great Sufi women:</b><br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">One day Rabi'a saw Rabah [al-Qaysi] kissing a young boy ["huwa yuqabbil sabiyyan"]. 'Do you love him?' she asked. 'Yes,' he said. To which she replied, 'I did not imagine that there was room in your heart to love anything other than G-d, the Glorious and Mighty!' Rabah was overcome at this and fainted. When he awoke, he said, 'On the contrary, this is a mercy that G-d Most High has put into the hearts of his slaves.'</span><br /><br />(Quoted from as-Sulami, Early Sufi Women = Dhikr an-niswa al-muta 'abbidat as sufiyyat, translated by Rkia E. Cornell, Louisville, KY: Fons Vitae, 1999, pp. 78-79.)<br /><br /><b>Besides boys, straight Muslim men were occasionally interested in grown adults as well, provided they were not "male." There is a hadith in which the Prophet's companions asked whether they were allowed to use men (presumably prisoners of war) as "eunuchs" to fulfill their sexual urges, since they were far from their wives.</b><br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">Bukhari LXII 6:9 [Narrated by ibn Mas'ud:] "We used to fight [in battle] together with the Prophet, peace be upon him. There were no women with us. We said: O Messenger, may we treat some as eunuchs [a laa nastakhsii]? He forbade us to do so."<br /><br /></span>The version in Bukhari LXII 8:13 says that rather than let the companions "treat [some] as eunuchs" in the absence of their wives, the Prophet "allowed them to marry corrupted women" [rakhasa lana an nankih al-maraa bil-shaub] from the vicinity, and he recited to them from the Qur'an: "O ye who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression."<br /><br /><b>The fact that Muhammad forbade the companions from designating men as eunuchs is not the point here. Of course, using a straight male as a eunuch was wrong — that was essentially the sin of the people of Lut. But what about using a eunuch (i.e. one who permanently lacks arousal with women) as a eunuch? Given that ibn Mas'ud made reference to the use of eunuchs for sexual gratification, and given that the Prophet understood what he meant, that indicates that the use of eunuchs for sexual gratification was known in Arabic society, and was considered a use that was appropriate to eunuchs.<br /><br />Since eunuchs were not considered male, there was no prohibition against it, not even in the Qur'an.<br /><br /></b>Eunuchs were still sex objects for straight men in the Mamluk dynasty, according to David Ayalon in Eunuchs, Caliphs, and Sultans: A Study in Power Relationships (Jerusalem, 1999). They not only served to prevent older Mamluks from having sexual access to younger trainees:<br /><br /><b>The eunuchs seem to have served as a shield against homosexual lust in yet another way. They themselves formed the target of that lust, thus diverting it from the youngsters. They are described as being womanly and docile in bed at night and manly and warlike by day in a campaign and in similar circumstances</b> (hum nisaa' li-mutmainn muqeem wa rijaal in kaanat al-asfaar; li-annahum bin-nahaar fawaaris wa bil-lail 'araa'is). [Arabic quoted by Ayalon from Abu Mansur al-Tha'alibi, Al-Latâ'if wal-Zarâ'if, Cairo 1324/1906-7, p. 79, lines 1-7; and the same quote from Tha'alibi in his Tamthîl wal-Muhâdara, Cairo 1381/1961, p. 224.]<br /><br />As for the issue of whether Muhammad himself expressly acknowledged that some people by nature refrain from heterosexuality, thus being natural eunuchs, consider the following hadith.<br /><br />It is related that one of the Prophet's companions, Abu Huraira, went to the Prophet, saying that he was a "young male" who "feared torment for his soul," but that he "did not find the wherewithal to marry a woman" [innee rajulun shaabbun wa ana akhaafu 'alaa nafsee al-'anata wa laa ajidu ma atazawwaju bihi an-nisaa'a].<br /><br />The Prophet remained silent, even after Abu Huraira repeated his statement three times. Finally after the fourth time, Muhammad said: "O Abu Huraira, the pen is dry regarding what is befitting for you. So be a eunuch for that reason or leave it alone." [ya Abaa Hurairata, jaffa al-qalam bimaa anta laaq fa'akhtasi 'alaa dhalika au dhar] (Bukhari, LXII 8). (For comparison, consider that when Uthman came to Muhammad asking if he could be permitted to live a life of abstinence, he was rebuffed.)<br /><br /><b>JESUS' MOTHER A MALE EUNUCH?</b><br /><br />The following look at the Quran will give you an idea of just how warped Muhammad really was!<br />He and his male followers believed that Jesus mother Mary, was a eunuch. I haven't quite figured out how they could justify Jesus' birth, but since the whole idea is so completely ludicrous and filled with homosexual lust, that I suppose they could justify anything!<br /><br />Another intriguing example of a gender variant woman is Jesus's mother Mary. According to ancient notions about procreation, males were the only ones capable of producing seed. It would be impossible for a woman to give birth to a child, let alone a boy, without receiving seed from a male.<br /><br />In Christianity, this problem is solved by making G-d the male father of Jesus. According to the Qur'an, however, G-d does not procreate. This means that the seed that became Jesus came from within Mary. If Mary carried viable seed originating from within her, then by ancient definitions, she was a male, despite appearances to the contrary. <b>So the Qur'an says that, when Mary was born, her mother declared that she was a female baby, but G-d knew better:</b><br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">(Qur'an 3:36) Lord, surely, I have brought it forth a female — and Allah knew best what she brought forth — and the male is not like the female…<br /><br />Arabic: Rabb, innee wada'tuha unthaa wa Allah 'a'lamu bimaa wada'at wa laisa adh-dhakaru kal-untha …</span><br /><br /><b>The Quran further describes lesbian women as well. And as shown above, Muhammad allowed members of his own army to choose whether they would be homosexual or heterosexual. Sex is the primary objective within the Muslim and Middle Eastern cultures. Just as in the current homosexual culture.<br /><br />ALEXANDER AND HELLENISM</b><br /><br />Alexander, the Great, though a Macedonian, proved to be the ambassador of the Greek culture, which had been imbued with homosexuality, having an intoxicating Divine flavour. He was not only a rare military genius but also possessed some great political and administrative qualities.<br /><br />He fell in love with eastern manners; he wore eastern dress and had two eastern queens, but his heterosexuality was just a cover-up for the eastern politics. He was a homosexual like the Greeks, whose culture he loved and practised. Hephaestion and Bago are two of his well-known catamites. Through him, and afterwards his generals, the Greek culture known as Hellenism, flourished in the Middle Eastern countries. It was given an extra ictus by the fact that Alexander claimed to be a g-d and was acknowledged and worshipped as such throughout his eastern dominions.<br /><br />The habits of g-d are bound to have a quick and lasting influence on the character of ordinary mortals. It penetrated the guts of the Persian poetry so deeply that it has become living eroticism in the mystical form of versification and <b>has spread to all the Muslim countries where the Persian language has flourished.<br /><br />The Arabian peninsula was no exception. Not only the South worshipped female deities connected with the Greek tradition but hellenism also reached the North, the land of the Prophet Muhammad. We find the name of Alexander, the Great, mentioned in the Koran as Dhool Karnain.<br /><br /></b><span style="color:blue;">"They will question thee (Muhammad) concerning Dhool Karnain. Say: I will recite to you a mention of him…"</span><br /><br />One ought to note that the name of Alexander the Great was not unheard of in the Hijaz (the Prophet's country) because people were curious to know more about him. Again, the Koran depicts Alexander, the Great, as a righteous man to whom Allah spoke and also left the making of vital decisions:<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">We (Allah) said, "O Dhool Karnain,<br />either thou shalt chastise them,<br />Or thou shalt take towards them<br />a way of kindness " (The Cave XVIII: 85)</span><br /><br /><u>It is quite clear that the Koran has not condemned Alexander, the Great. Instead, he has been displayed as a righteous man, whose judgement Allah trusted and respected! Obviously, his homosexuality had no bearing on piety. This fact is supported in the already quoted Mount LII: 20, which states:</u><br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">"While they (boys) hand therein (paradise) a cup One to another wherein is no idle talk, no cause of sin, and there go around youths, own, as if they were concealed pearls."<br /><br /></span>These verses describe two facts clearly:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">1. All Muslim men shall have "their own" boys who are pretty like pearls, and<br /><br />2. there will be "no cause of sin;" it means that so liberal shall be the laws of paradise that lasciviousness shall not count as a sin.</span><br /><br />That this interpretation of the above Koranic verse is correct and honest, is corroborated by the facts of history. About the high society of Arabia during its heyday, Professor Philip K. Hitti wrties in his famous "History of the Arabs" (10th edition, p. 341):<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">"The servants were almost all slaves recruited from non-Muslim peoples and captured by force, taken prisoners in time of war or purchased in time of peace The white slaves (Mamluk) were mainly Greeks and Slavs, Armenians and Berbers.<br /><br />Certain slaves were eunuchs (Khisvan) attached to the service of the harem. Others termed Ghilman, who might also be eunuchs, were the recipients of special favour from their masters, wore rich and attractive uniforms and often beautified and perfumed their bodies in effeminate fashion. We read that Ghilman in the reign of al-Rashid, but it was evidently al-Amin who, following the Persian precedent, established in the Arabic world the Ghilman institution for the practice of unnatural sexual relations.<br /><br />A judge under al-Mamun used four hundred such youths. Poets like abu-Nuiwas did not disdain to give public expression to their perverted passions and to address amorous pieces of their composition to beardless young boys."<br /><br /></span><b>These historical facts conform to the highly erotic Koranic description of the paradisaic boys, who are ever-young, pretty like pearls, dressed in silk and brocades, and wear bracelets. Above all, like Ganymede they serve wine in cups of crystal. These boys are not servants as the Muslim scholars pretend because a servant can be old, ugly and poorly dressed.</b><br /><br />The Persians (Iranians) had acquired love of homosexuality from their conquering master, Alexander the Great and his Greek soldiers. This practice was made lawful among the Arabs by the Koranic description of the beautiful boys: al-Rashid and al-Amin were prominent rulers and leaders of the Muslim world, which treated them as the Model of Behaviour.<br /><br />This is the reason that the Qazis (Muslim judges) who were expected to live, and dispense justice according to the principles of Islam, kept harems of boys unashamedly.<br /><br /><b>MUSLIM CULTURE IN INDIA</b><br /><br />Homosexuality, and specifically sodomy, was not introduced into India by Muslims. <b>Under Muslim chiefs, however, homosexuality entered Indian court life. Harems of young boys were kept by Muslim nawabs and Hindu aristocrats in the sixteenth century.</b><br /><br /><u>The Emperor Babar wrote romantically about his famous love affair with the boy Baburi at Andezan in the Tuzuk-i-Babri. Dargah Quli Khan, an important official in the principality of Hyderabad, observed important homosexual activities and homosexual love in the life and culture of Delhi on the eve of Nadir Shah's invasion. His personal diary, Muraqqa-e-Delhi: The Mughal Capital in Muhammad Shah's Time, contains same glimpses of gay life during his three-year stay in Delhi, between 1739 and 1741.<br /><br /></u>Azam Khan, one of the chief nobles of the empire, <b>is described in this memoir as "a pederast [who] is fond of beautiful girls as well. Whenever he is informed of the availability of a lad or a beautiful girl he endeavours to be the buyer." Similarly, Mirza Munnu, a man of notable birth is also perfect in this sort of sodomy.</b><br /><br />He acts as a guide to the novices who in turn feel proud to imbibe this trade from him. He organizes mehfils (shows) where groups of lads are made available. His house is the palace of Shaddad (an impious king and founder of Bagh-e-lram, where all the beautiful whores get together), full of fairy-like lads and lasses…<br /><br />Again, Sultana is a twelve-year-old, olive complexioned catamite, whose coquetry reflects itself in his dancing … He is a bud who competes with flowers or the flame of the lamp facing the light of the sun. The audience wishes to hear him repeatedly and their thirst for a vision of his beauty is not easily quenched.<br /><br />Mian Hinga is a fair complexioned youth and in his white dress looks fresh as the jasmine flower. He holds an assembly outside the walls of the Imperial Fort … Many renowned people go for walks to the chowk and, under the pretence of buying rare objects, watch him perform … he looks as fresh as dawn dipped in dew … in spite of many invitations, he never visits anyone at their residence.<br /><br />His fans have to visit his house if they wish to derive pleasure from his acts. (Muraqqa-e-Delhi, translated by C. Shekllar and S. Chenoy)<br /><br /><b>In Islamic Sufi literature homosexual eroticism was a major metaphorical expression of the spiritual relationship between g-d and man, and much Persian poetry and fiction used gay relationships as examples of moral love.</b><br /><br />Although the Koran and early religious writings of Islam display mildly negative attitudes toward homosexuality, Muslim cultures treated homosexuality with indifference, if not admiration.<br /><br />The classic works of Arabic poetry and prose, from poet Abu Nuwas to the Thousand and One Night, treat gay people and their sexuality with respect or casual acceptance. The Arabic language contains a huge vocabulary of gay erotic terminology, with dozens of words just to describe types of male prostitutes.<br /><br />Erotic address by one male to another is the standard convention of Arabic love poetry; even poems really written for women frequently use male pronouns and metaphors of male beauty. The association of homosexual feelings with moral looseness appears to be a comparatively recent phenomenon (lohn Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance, , and Homosexuality).<br /><br /><b>This quote comes from a present day Islamic site:</b><br /><br /><span style="color:red;">The punishment prescribed in Islaam for anyone who openly professes to be a homosexual is clear to all believers.<br /><br />In Islam 'Hadd' or publicly ordained punishments are for sins committed openly. When a person openly commits a sin for which Allah has ordained a public punishment it becomes the duty of the Muslim ruler to punish him. But any sin done in private is a matter that the doer has to resolve with Allah through repentance.</span></span><span style="color:red;"></span></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-19706081643610456532010-04-17T14:50:00.003-07:002010-04-17T14:54:37.175-07:00The blood price of the Muslims<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJhyz0N-2fUJjA2Le4ytnDyq9WpYjcM_BUrGWvWk8lPSfxuvhZfQR2tTIrDEpMngVyOzo3A43F3FGqLneUTAGdh4KdCQH4-7vt2ywmMfW3K7CTx3MTA67aS2VO21RWdt1lCoz6Yf1WonnK/s1600/blood.jpg"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 211px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJhyz0N-2fUJjA2Le4ytnDyq9WpYjcM_BUrGWvWk8lPSfxuvhZfQR2tTIrDEpMngVyOzo3A43F3FGqLneUTAGdh4KdCQH4-7vt2ywmMfW3K7CTx3MTA67aS2VO21RWdt1lCoz6Yf1WonnK/s320/blood.jpg" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5461228177065909618" /></a><br /><br /><br /><br />From here on we must ask: How many Arabs and Muslims have been killed in those same years in other countries, for instance, in Russia or in France, and how many Arabs, Muslims and others, were killed in those same years by Arabs and Muslims. The information gathered here is based on various research institutes, academic bodies, international organizations (such as Amnesty and other bodies that follow human rights), the UN, and governmental agents.<br /><br />In many cases the different organizations present different and contradictory numbers. The differences sometimes reach hundreds of thousands, and sometimes even millions. We will probably never know the precise number. But even the lowest agreed numbers, that are the basis for the tables given here, present a staggering and horrific picture. In addition, time is too short to survey bloody conflicts that are not even covered in these tables, although these conflicts took a higher human toll than the blood price of the whole Arab-Israeli conflict.<br /><br /><b>Algeria:</b> A few years after the establishment of the State of Israel, there began another war of independence. This time it was Algeria against France, between the years 1954-1962. The number of victims on the Muslim side is a subject for controversy. According to official sources in Algeria it is over a million. There are research institutes in the west that tend to accept that number. French sources have tried in the past to claim that it is only a quarter of a million Muslims, with an additional 100,000 Muslim collaborators with the French. But these estimates are regarded as tendentious and low. Today there is no question that the French killed nearly 600,000 Muslims. And these are the French, who do not stop preaching to Israel, the Israel that in the whole history of its conflict with the Arabs failed to reach even one tenth of that number, and even then, according to the more severe assessments.<br /><br />The massacre in Algeria continues. In the 1991 elections the Islamic Salvation Front was voted in. The results of the elections were cancelled by the army. Since then a civil war has been raging, between the central government, supported by the army, and Islamic movements. According to various estimates, there have been about 100,000 victims so far. Most of them have been innocent civilians. In most cases it has been horrific massacres of whole villages, women, children and old people. A massacre in the name of Islam.<br /><br /><b>Algeria summary: 500,000 to 1 million in the war of independence; 100,000 in the civil war in the 90’s.<br /><br /><br /></b><b>Sudan: the worst series of crimes</b><br />Sudan: A country torn by campaigns of destruction, almost all of them between the Arab-Muslim north, that is control of the country, and the south, populated by blacks. Two civil wars have taken place in this country, and a massacre, under government patronage, has been taking place in recent years in the district of Darfur. The first civil war spanned the years of 1955-1972. Moderate estimates talk of 500,000 victims. In 1983 the second civil war began. But it wasn’t a civil war but a systematic massacre suitably defined as ‘genocide’. The goals were Islamization, Arabization and mass deportation, that occasionally becomes slaughter, also for the need to gain control over giant oil fields. We are talking about an estimated 1.9 million victims.<br /><br />The division between Muslim and other victims is unclear. The large district of Noba, populated by many black Muslims, was served its portion of horrors. The Muslims, should they be black, are not granted any favors. Since the rise to power of radical Islam, under the spiritual guidance of Dr. Hassan Thorabi, the situation has worsened. This is probably the worst series of crimes against humanity since WWII. We’re talking about ethnic cleansing, deportations, mass murder, slave trade, forcible enforcement of the laws of Islam, taking children from their parents and more. Millions have become refugees. As far as is known, there are not millions of publications about the Sudanese ‘Right of Return’ and there are no petitions by intellectuals negating Sudan’s right to exist.<br /><br />Recent years have been all about Darfur. Again Muslims (Arabs) are murdering (black) Muslims and heathens, and the numbers are unclear. Moderate estimates are talking about 200,000 victims, higher estimates say 600,000. No one knows for sure. And the slaughter continues.<br /><br />Throughout the atrocities of Sudan, the slaughter has been perpetrated mainly by the Arab Muslim regime, and the great majority of victims, if not all, are black, of all religions, including Muslims.<br /><br /><b>Sudan summary: 2.6 million to 3 million.<br /><br /></b><b>Afghanistan</b><br />Afghanistan: This is a web of nonstop mass killing – domestic and external. The Soviet invasion, which began on 24th December 1979 and ended on 2nd February 1989, left about a million dead. Other estimates talk of 1.5 million dead civilians and an additional 90,000 soldiers.<br /><br />After the withdrawal of the Soviet Forces, Afghanistan went through a series of civil wars and struggles between the Soviet supporters, the Mojahidin and the Taliban. Each group carried out a doctrine of mass extermination of its opponents. The sum of the fatalities in civil war, up to the invasion of the coalition forces under American leadership in 2001, is about one million.<br /><br />There are those who complain, and rightly so, about the carnage that took place as a result of the coalition offensive to overthrow the Taliban regime and as part of the armed struggle against al Qaida. Well, the invasion into Afghanistan caused a relatively limited number of deaths, less than 10,000. Had it not taken place, we would have seen a continuation of the self-inflicted genocide, with an average of 100,000 fatalities a year.<br /><br /><b>Afghanistan Summary: One million to one and a half million, as a result of the Soviet invasion; about one million in the civil war.<br /><br /></b><b>somalia: unending civil war</b><br />Somalia: Since 1977 this Muslim state in East Africa has been immersed in an unending civil war. The number of victims is estimated at about 550,000. It is Muslims killing mainly Muslims. UN attempts to intervene, in the interest of peace keeping, ended in the failure, as did later attempts by American Forces.<br /><br />Most of the victims died not in the battle fields, but as a result of deliberate starvation and slaughter of civilians, in bombardments aimed at the civilian population (massive bombardments of opponent districts, such as the bombardment of Somaliland, that caused the deaths of 50,000 ).<br /><br /><b>Somalia Summary: 400,000 to 550,000 victims in the civil war.<br /><br /></b><b>Bangladesh: 1 of the 3 greatest genocides</b><br />Bangladesh: This country aspired to gain independence from Pakistan. Pakistan reacted with a military invasion that caused mass destruction. It was not a war, it was a massacre. One to two million people were systematically liquidated in 1971. Some researchers define the events of that year in Bangladesh as one of the three greatest genocides in (history - IJ) (after the Holocaust and the Ruanda genocide).<br /><br />An inquiry committee appointed by the government of Bangladesh counted 1.247 million fatalities as a result of systematic murder of civilians by Pakistan’s army forces. There are also numerous reports of ‘Death squads’, in which “Muslim soldiers were sent to execute mass killings of Muslim farmers”.<br /><br />The Pakistani army ceased only after the intervention of India, which suffered from waves of refugees - millions – arriving from Bangladesh. At least 150 thousand more were murdered in acts of retaliation after the retreat of the Pakistan army.<br /><br /><b>Bangladesh summary: 1.4 million to 2 million.<br /><br /></b><b>indonesia: The massacre commenced with a communist uprising</b><br /><br />Indonesia: The biggest Muslim state in the world competes with Bangladesh for the dubious title of ‘The biggest massacre since the Holocaust’. The massacre commenced with a communist uprising in 1965. There are different assessments (of the number of fatalities - IJ) in this case as well. The accepted estimate talks of as many as 400 thousand Indonesians killed in the years 1965-1966, although stricter estimates claim the number is higher.<br /><br />The massacre was perpetrated by the army, led by Hag’i Mohammed Soharto, who seized power in the country for the next 32 years. An investigator of those years points out that the person who was in charge of suppressing the rebellion, General Srv Adei, admitted: “We killed 2 million not 1 million, and we did good work”. For this argument, we will stick to the lower, more accepted estimates.<br /><br />In 1975, after the end of the Portuguese rule, East Timor announced its independence. Within a short time it was invaded by Indonesia, who ruled the area until 1999. During these years about 100,000 to 200,000 people were killed, along with the complete destruction of infrastructure.<br /><br /><b>Indonesia summary: 400,000 killed, with an additional 100,000 to 200,000 in East Timor<br /><br /></b><b>Iraq: the destruction of Saddam Hussein</b><br />Iraq: Most of the of the last two decades was the doing of Saddam Hussein. This is another case of a regime that caused the deaths of millions. Nonstop death. One of the highpoints was during the Iran-Iraq war, in the conflict over the Shat El Arab River, the river that is created by the convergence of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. This was a conflict that led to nothing but large scale destruction and mass killing. Estimates are between 450,000 and 650,000 Iraqis, and between 450,000 and 970,000 Iranians. Jews, Israelis, and Zionists were not around, as far as is known.<br /><br />Waves of purges, some politically motivated (opposition), some ethnic ( the Kurdish minority) and some religiously motivated (the ruling Suni minority against the Shiite majority), yielded an astounding number of victims. Estimates vary from one million, according to local sources, to a quarter million, according to Human Rights Watch. Other international organizations quote an estimate of about half a million.<br /><br />In the years 1991 - 1992 there was a Shiite uprising in Iraq. There are contradictory estimates about the number of victims. The numbers vary from 40,000 to 200,000. In addition to the Iraqis that were slaughtered one must add the Kurds. During Saddam Hussein’s reign, between 200,000 to 300,000 of them were killed in a genocide that continued all through the 1980’s and the 1990’s.<br /><br />Over half a million more Iraqis died from diseases because of the shortage of medicine, which was the result of sanctions imposed after the first Gulf War. Today it is clear that this was a continuation of the genocide perpetrated by Saddam on his own people. He could have purchased medicine, he had enough money to buy food and to build hospitals for all the children of Iraq, but Saddam preferred to build palaces and to distribute franchises to many in the west and in Arab states. This issue is being exposed in the corruption of the UN’s ‘Oil for Food’ project.<br /><br />The Iraqis continue to suffer. The civil war that is raging there now - even if some would rather not give that name to the mutual massacre of Sunis and Shiites – is costing tens of thousands of lives. It is estimated that about 100,000 people have been killed since the coalition forces took control in Iraq.<br /><br /><b>Iraq Summary: 1.54 million to 2 million victims.<br />Iran Summary: 450,000 to 970,000 victims.<br /><br /></b><b>Lebanon: The Lebanese civil war</b><br />Lebanon: The Lebanese civil war took place from 1975 to 1990. Israel was involved in certain stages, by way of the first Lebanon War in 1982. There is no disagreement that a considerable part of the victims were killed in the first two years.<br /><br />The more assessments talk of over 130,000 killed. Most of them were Lebanese killed by other Lebanese, on religious, ethnic grounds and in connection with the Syrian involvement. Syria transferred its support between various parties in the conflict. The highest estimates claim that Israeli activities were the cause of around 18,000 people, the great majority of which were fighters.<br /><br /><b>Lebanon summary: 130,000.<br /><br /></b>Yemen: In the civil war that took place in Yemen from 1962 to 1970, with Egyptian and Saudi involvement, 100,000 to 150,000 Yemenites were killed, and more than a thousand Egyptians and a thousand Saudis.<br /><br />Egypt committed war crimes by incorporating the use of chemical warfare. Riots in Yemen from 1984 to 1986 caused the deaths of thousands more.<br /><br />Yemen summary: 100,000 to 150,000 fatalities<br />Chechnya: Russia turned down Chechen Republic demands for independence, and this led to the first Chechen war of 1994 to 1996. The war cost the lives of 50,000 to 200,000 Chechens.<br /><br />Russia put a great deal into this conflict, but failed miserably. This did not help Chechens, because although they had gained autonomy there republic was in ruins.<br /><br />The second Chechen War began in 1999 and officially ended in 2001, but it has not really ended, and number of the victims is estimated at 30,000 to 100,000.<br /><br />Chechnya summary: 80,000 to 300,000 fatalities.<br /><br /><b>smaller confrontations</b><br />From Jordan to Zanzibar: In addition to the wars and the massacres, there have also been smaller confrontations, that have cost the lives of thousands and tens of thousands, of Muslims and Arabs (killed) by Muslims and Arabs. These confrontations are not even taken into account in the tables presented on these pages, because the numbers are small, relatively speaking, even though the numbers of those killed are far higher than the numbers of the victims of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Here are some of them:<br /><br />Jordan: 1970 to 1971 the Black September riots took place In the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan. King Hussein was fed up of the Palestians use of the country and their threatened to take control of it. The confrontation, mainly a massacre in the refugee camps, took thousands of lives. According to estimates provided by the Palestinians themselves - 10,000 to 25,000 fatalities. According to other sources - a few thousand.<br /><br />Chad: Half of the population of Chad are Muslims: In various civil wars 30,000 civilians have been killed.<br /><br />Kosovo: In the mainly Muslim area of Yugoslavia about 10,000 were killed in the war there from 1998 to 2000.<br /><br />Tajikistan: Civil war from 1992 to 1996 left about 50,000 dead.<br /><br />Syria: Hafez Assad’s systematic persecution of the Muslim Brotherhood ended in the 1982 massacre in the city of Hama, costing the lives of about 20,000 people.<br /><br />Iran: Thousands were killed in the beginning of the Humeini Revolution. The precise number is unknown, but is somewhere between thousands and tens of thousands. The Kurds also suffered at the hands of Iran, and about 10,000 of them were murdered there.<br /><br />Turkey: About 20,000 Kurds were killed in Turkey as part of the conflict there.<br /><br />Zanzibar: In the earlyu 1960’s the island was granted independence, but only for a short time. At first, the Arabs were in power, but a black group, made up mainly of Muslims, slaughtered the Arab group, also Muslim, in 1964. The estimates are that 5,000 to 17,000 were killed.<br /><br />Even this is not the end of the list. There were more conflicts with unknown numbers of victims in former USSR republics with Muslim majority populations (like the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia over Nagurno Karabach), and a disputable number of Muslims that were killed in mixed population countries in Africa, such as Nigeria, Mauritania or Uganda (in the years of Idi Amins reign in Uganda, in the decade that began in 1971, about 300,000 Ugandans were killed. Amin defined himself as Muslim, but in contrast to Sudan, it is hard to say that the background for the slaughter was Muslim, and it certainly wasn’t Arab.<br /><br /><br /><b><br /></b>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-50597784022931805262010-04-17T14:49:00.001-07:002010-04-20T04:01:04.130-07:00Muhammad's teachings - his legacy<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/6970/1974/1600/968966/islcen-mohammed.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/6970/1974/320/493592/islcen-mohammed.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Muhammad, the creator of Islam has left his children a legacy:<br /><br /><b><i><span style="color:#0000ff;">After the death of Khadijah, his first wife, Mohammad went on a wife collection spree. Between the ages of 50 to 58, he collected at least seven wives. The ages of his wives ranged from a mere 6 years old child to a 50 years old lady! It is more surprising that at the age of 60 alone, Mohammad collected another sortie of at least four wives whose ages ranged from 17 years Safiyah to 36 years Maimunah. It is interesting to note that as Mohammad was ageing he desired more and more young women.<br /><span style="color:#008400;"><br /></span></span></i><span style="color:#0000ff;"><span style="color:#008400;">Muhammad's lust for young/child girls is clearly stated in hadith. Here is one example:<br /><br />Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:<br /><br />When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the young virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?' ( Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17)<br /><br /><span style="color:#ff0000;"><br />Mohammad left the following examples to his followers (in marriage):<br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· If possible, marry rich women so that they can support you (Khadijah, Zainab bt. Jahsh). In this case, you do not need to work. You can be a parasite. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· Marry old women only to take care of your family (Saudah, Umm Salam Hind, Zainab bt. Khuzaima). That is, marry old women to save on maidservant's pay.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· It is okay to marry children as young as 6 (Ayesha). This is to satisfy your paedophilic fantasies and also to ensure a carer when you are about to die. You will save on nursing charges as well as having a youthful face around. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· You can marry your friend's daughters (Ayesha, Hafsah) even though you may be like their grandfather or even great grandfather<br /><br /></span></span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#ff0000;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">You can marry your adopted son's wife (Zainab bt. Jahsh) even though Islam forbids the adoption of children. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· You can marry your first cousin (Zainab bt. Jahsh). In many societies, it is almost like committing incest. However, in Islam this is perfectly okay. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· You can marry and have sex with your captives (Safiyah); but always take the most beautiful and the youngest girls as your prisoners. Do not go for the old, ugly, poor and hapless women prisoners. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· It is all right to accept women as gifts (Umm Habibah, Mariyah) and to have sex with them by marrying them. Make sure the women are extremely attractive and young. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· You can marry and have sex with your slave girls given as gifts (Mariyah). </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· You can also have sex with unlimited number of girls got as gift and/or war booty, without marriage. </span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">· If a captive refuses to marry you, then you can keep her as a concubine (Rayhana) and have sex with her until you’re contended. </span><i><br /><br /><span style="color:#008400;"><br /></span></i></span></b><span style="font-weight: bold;color:#ff0000;" ><i><span style="color:#008400;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Here are some details of women the prophet of Islam married or kept as concubines. </span></span></i></span><b><span style="color:#ff0000;"><i><span style="color:#008400;"><br /></span></i><span style="color:#008400;"><br />The prophet said, "the woman can be married for religion, her fortune or her beauty. So marry one for the religion" (Abu Issa al-Tarmidi, Sunan al-Tarmidi, Medina n.d., p.275, B:4, H:1092). I quote one more hadith for confirmation:<br /><br />Narrated Abu Huraira:<br /><br />The Prophet said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a losers. (Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 27) </span><i><span style="color:#008400;"><br /><span style="color:#0000ff;"><br />Notice that the so-called prophet never talked of love, sense of belonging and feelings between men and women. </span></span></i></span></b><span style="font-weight: bold;color:#ff0000;" ><span style="color:#008400;"><span style="color:#0000ff;">The basis of his relationship is all physical.<br /><br /></span></span></span><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg" alt="" /><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg" alt="" /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;color:#ff0000;" ><span style="color:#008400;"><span style="color:#0000ff;"><br /><br /></span></span></span><b><span style="color:#ff0000;"><i><span style="color:#008400;"><span style="color:#0000ff;"><br /></span></span></i></span></b>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-89166634652160521522010-04-17T14:40:00.000-07:002010-04-17T14:46:52.055-07:00Orkut debate btw Morrigan Dunn x Muhammad Omer<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Lack of morality in the Quran</b><br /><b><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">DEBATE BETWEEN: MORRIGAN & OMER</span></b><br /><br />No one else is allowed to post in this topic. The moderator has undertaken a promise to delete any other post (including his own).<br /><br /><b>Round 1:</b><br /><br /><b><span style="color:red;">Slave girls as sexual property in the Quran</span></b><br /><br /><br />The Quran makes women subordinate to men in many ways. (read this)<br /><a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/10/women_are_inferior_to_men_in_t.html" target="_blank">http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/10/women_are_inferior_to_men_in_t.html</a><br /><br />But no women subject to the rule of Quranic law are more unfortunate than slave girls. According to the eternal and unchanging scripture of Islam, men are permitted to treat them as sexual property regardless of their wishes, under certain specified circumstances.<br /><br />Sura (Chapter) 23 of the Quran was revealed during Muhammad’s life in Mecca before his Hijrah or Emigration from his home city to Medina in AD 622. During the early years of his ministry, he never waged war on anyone, so these were times of peace, although he suffered from a measure of persecution. [1]<br /><br />The Quran in Sura 23:5-6 says:<br /><br />5 [Most certainly true believers] . . . guard their private parts scrupulously, <b>6 except with regard to their wives and <u>those who are legally in their possession</u></b>, for in that case they shall not be blameworthy. (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 3, p. 237)<br /><br />The key words are <b>“those who are legally in their possession.”</b> Maududi (d. 1979) is a highly respected commentator on the Quran, and he interprets the plain meaning of the clause, saying that sex with slave-girls is lawful. </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="DISPLAY: none"><input type="hidden" value="E4E1050A113FBE103304CD4ADD8C5B0B" name="POST_TOKEN"></span><span style="DISPLAY: none"><input type="hidden" value="fZmZI6Zual7/dCW7IYPLEQ+qaF4=" name="signature"></span><span style="DISPLAY: none"><input type="hidden" value="2500808" name="commId"></span><span style="DISPLAY: none"><input type="hidden" value="2545677157072639883" name="topicId"></span><span style="DISPLAY: none"><input type="hidden" value="2545677157072639883" name="messageId"></span></p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><?xml:namespace prefix = v /><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"><v:path connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" extrusionok="f"><?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:lock aspectratio="t" ext="edit"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 26<v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span>Maududi writes:<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">Two categories of women have been excluded from the general command of guarding the private parts: (a) wives, (b) women who are legally in one’s possession, i.e. slave-girls. <b>Thus the verse clearly lays down the law that one is allowed to have sexual relation with one’s slave-girl as with one’s wife, the basis being possession and not marriage. If marriage had been the condition, the slave-girl also would have been included among the wives, and there was no need to mention them separately. (ibid. p. 241, note 7)</b></span><br /><br />=========<br /><br />OMER:<br /><br />Address the points now. DEFEND IT. I will wait for you. </p><form></form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 26<v:shape id="_x0000_i1028" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Rules to be followed</b><br /><b>1) Only Morrigan and Omer will be allowed to post in this thread.<br />2) Please make the post in Points.<br />3) No Abuses<br />4) Any claims need to be backed up with Proper References from proper sources.<br />5) Links can be provided only for references, not for preaching.</b><br />----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br /><u>Note:</u> Morrigan, I am debating with you, not with the websites. So kindly refrain from giving links to other websites except when you need to give ref. to something. The link you gave has hardly got anything to do with this topic you started here. Looking forward for your co-operation in this regard</p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 26<v:shape id="_x0000_i1029" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i>According to the eternal and unchanging scripture of Islam, men are permitted to treat them as sexual property regardless of their wishes, under certain specified circumstances.</i><br /><br />Kindly provide some reference from the eternal and unchanging scripture of Islam that "men are permitted to treat those (whom their right hand possess) regardless of their wishes"<br /><br /><i>Lack of morality in the Quran<br /><br />Maududi (d. 1979) is a highly respected commentator on the Quran, and he interprets the plain meaning of the clause, saying that sex with slave-girls is lawful.</i><br /><br />Now, first tell me, what set of moral values do you follow?<br /><br />Which set of moral values tell you that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral?<br /><br />What makes you believe that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral and having sexual relationship with ones wife is moral?<br /><br />How do you define morality? </p><p class="MsoNormal"><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal">1. The link was NOT a reference. It was a point of argument.<br /><br />2. The references WERE provided: (See below)<br /><br />a) Sura 23:5-6<br />b) Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 3, p. 237<br />c) Maududi (d. 1979)<br /><br />I guess you deliberately missed them.<br />============================<br /><br />1. Regarding rules.. - you don't make the rules here. I do. I am the one who wants ANSWERS.<br /><br />2. You don't ask me questions. I do. You just REPLY to them. (You are the defender)<br /><br />3. If you want to ask me questions, please open another topic and put your questions to me there. Here YOU answer.<br />==================<br /><br /><b><u>DEBATE</u></b><br /><br />[Muhammad] - <b>Kindly provide some reference from the eternal and unchanging scripture of Islam that "men are permitted to treat those (whom their right hand possess) regardless of their wishes"</b><br /><br />[Morrigan] – <span style="color:blue;">The Quran in Sura 23:5-6 says:<br /><br />5 [Most certainly true believers] . . . <b>guard their private parts scrupulously, 6 except with regard to their wives and those who are legally in their possession, for in that case they shall not be blameworthy</b>. (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 3, p. 237)</span><br /><br /><br />The Quran tells Muslim MEN to abstain (guard their private parts) from women who are NOT their wives or THOSE WHO ARE LEGALLY IN THEIR POSSESSION.<br />The women who are legally in a man's possession is a SLAVE.<br />Hence Muslims are told by Muhammad (on behalf of Allah) that they can have intercourse with any woman who is legally theirs or their wives.<br />Note that <b>BOTH ARE MENTIONED SEPARATELY.</b> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;"><span style="font-size:+0;"></span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">ACCUSATION:<br /><br />[Morrigan] <span style="color:blue;">Maududi (d. 1979) is a highly respected commentator on the Quran, and he interprets the plain meaning of the clause, saying that <b>sex with slave-girls is lawful.</b></span><br /><br />Muhammad was supposed to address this. Instead here is his answer:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Now, first tell me, what set of moral values do you follow?<br />Which set of moral values tell you that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral?<br />What makes you believe that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral and having sexual relationship with ones wife is moral?<br />How do you define morality? </span><br /><br />Muhammad has NOT REPLIED to my question. Instead he tries to divert the situation. </p><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"><p class="MsoNormal"><br />Muhammad, allow me to remind you. I am not here to answer to YOU. You are here to answer to ME. If you cannot do it, then leave this debate and find me a Muslim who CAN debate and answer me.<br /><br />I am not here to debate on what is moral to YOU or not. RAPE is RAPE. To have sexual intercourse without the consent of a woman is RAPE.<br /><br />And if you already have a WIFE, why would you have any RIGHT to have sexual intercourse with a captive who is NOT your wife?<br /><br />If this is the case, so WOMEN can also do so. They can have sexual intercourse with their husbands AND with their slaves.<br /><br />Do you agree? </p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> <span style="font-size:13;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 1</span><br /><b>You said</b><br /><br /><i>1. The link was NOT a reference. It was a point of argument.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response"</b><br /><br />I said I was debating with you, not with any links. Put forth 'your' arguments, not those given in links. Otherwise, I will be posting links too and then there will be a debate between different internet links, not between you and me.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 2</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>5 [Most certainly true believers] . . . guard their private parts scrupulously, 6 except with regard to their wives and those who are legally in their possession, for in that case they shall not be blameworthy. (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 3, p. 237)</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Where does the Quran says that "men are permitted to treat those (whom their right hand possess) regardless of their wishes"?!?! </p><p class="MsoNormal"><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> <span style="font-size:11;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 3</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>The Quran tells Muslim MEN to abstain (guard their private parts) from women who are NOT their wives or THOSE WHO ARE LEGALLY IN THEIR POSSESSION.<br /><br />The women who are legally in a man's possession is a SLAVE.<br /><br /><u>Hence Muslims are told by Muhammad (on behalf of Allah) that they can have intercourse with any woman who is legally theirs or their wives.</u></i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Allah (swt) says in the Quran:<br /><br />Ila/Except A'ala/From Azwajihim/their wives Aoo/or Maa/What Malakat/Possess Aiemaanuhum/Their right hands<br /><br />These Malakat Aiemaanuhum/Possession of "right" hands are the female captives of war. In a war men are killed and women and children are left behind because a war is basically between men. These women are then captured in the war and because their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have died in the war, they are left alone to look after themselves without any safety. Some of them are such that if they are not taken as captives, they can rebel against the government which can take shape of another war. So for their own safety, they are captured and the Caliph distributes them amongst the Muslims and then they are in their possession, living safely under the roof of their house.<br /><br />The way you call a woman your wife after performing certain ceremonies and the relationship of husband and wife is established, just like that when a female captive is given to a Muslim to be under his possession, the relationship between them is that of "'Right' hand possession".<br /><br />Why did not Allah (swt) said, what your "Left hands possess"? It is because right hand has a special significence in Islam. Muslims are ordered to use their Right hands to do their everyday life work, like eating, drinking, giving, taking etc. Left hand is used for washing dirt etc. So calling them Right hand possession means that a Muslim has to treat them with kindness and in a best manner.<br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal">Sexual relationship with THEM is allowed in Islam, just like sexual relationship with ones wife is allowed.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 4</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>Muhammad has NOT REPLIED to my question. Instead he tries to divert the situation.<br /><br />Muhammad, allow me to remind you. I am not here to answer to YOU. You are here to answer to ME. If you cannot do it, then leave this debate and find me a Muslim who CAN debate and answer me.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Your point from the beginning was that having sex with female captives of war is immoral. Hence, before I could answer you, I would like to know your answers to the questions I posed to you. As for your saying that you are not here to answer me and I am here to answer YOU, then let me remind you too that this is a "DEBATE" not a "QUESTION & ANSWER SESSION"! So answer the following questions like a good girl:<br /><br />1. what set of moral values do you follow?<br /><br />2. Which set of moral values tell you that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral?<br /><br />3. What makes you believe that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral and having sexual relationship with ones wife is moral?<br /><br />4. How do you define morality?<br /><br />You need to clarify what u mean by immoral, or I can declare it as Completely Moral and end the debate.<br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 26<v:shape id="_x0000_i1033" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 5</span><br /><b>Then you say:</b><br /><br /><i>To have sexual intercourse without the consent of a woman is RAPE.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />That is what I asked you before that where does the quran says that you can have sexual intercourse with "your female captive" without her consent? <span style="color:red;">Islam does not permit Muslims to force their female captives of war to have intercourse with them without their consent.</span><br /><br /><b>In Mishkatul Masabi, Page 292, The Prophet (saw) said:<br /><br />Those slaves you are satisfied with should be fed as you are fed and clothed as you are clothed, those with whom you are dis-satisfied should be sold for you should not punish the servants of Allah (swt).</b><br /><br />So here the Prophet (saw) has said clearly that if a slave (Male of Female) does not satisfy you in any matter, you should NOT Punish the Servants of Allah (swt) but should let them away. So rape here is clearly prohibited.<br /><br />The Prophet (saw) also said in Sahih Muslim:<br /><br /><b>Book 015, Number 4095:<br /><br />Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is essential to feed the slave, clothe him (properly) and not burden him with work which is beyond his power.</b><br /><br />So if even overburdening and punishing and abusing is prohibited, how can something as rape be allowed?<br /><br />Also if through sexual intercourse, the female captive gets pregnant from her master, she would automatically gain her freedom.<br /><br />There are so many ahadith, but I think its enough for now.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 6</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>And if you already have a WIFE, why would you have any RIGHT to have sexual intercourse with a captive who is NOT your wife?</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />What is wrong in having sexual intercourse with a captive if you already have a wife? :s<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 7</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>If this is the case, so WOMEN can also do so. They can have sexual intercourse with their husbands AND with their slaves.<br /><br />Do you agree?</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />No I do not agree with that, because Islam does not permit women to do so. It's just like saying that if a man is allowed to marry 4 women, why can't a woman marry 4 men? So I would say that Islam prohibits that, must a certain wisdom behind its prohibition. If you think that women should also be aloud to do so, then you may do it if your religion or country allows you to do so.<br /><br /><b><span style="color:red;">Note: I want a response to all these 7 points. Thankyou.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:+0;"></span><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> <span style="font-size:11;"><span style="font-size:+0;"></span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 1</span><br /><br />[Muhammad] <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">I said I was debating with you, not with any links. Put forth 'your' arguments, not those given in links. Otherwise, I will be posting links too and then there will be a debate between different internet links, not between you and me.</span><br /><br />[Morrigan] -Ignored. This is the point that YOU must address before carrying on to the next:<br /><br /><b><span style="color:blue;">Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? YES OR NO?</span></b><br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 2</span><br /><br />[Muhammad] <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">Where does the Quran says that "men are permitted to treat those (whom their right hand possess) regardless of their wishes"?!?!</span><br /><br />[Morrigan] - You ANSWER my question. You do not ASK me questions.<br />Address the point.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 3</span><br /><br />[Muhammad] - <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">Allah (swt) says in the Quran:<br /><br />Ila/Except A'ala/From Azwajihim/their wives Aoo/or Maa/What Malakat/Possess Aiemaanuhum/Their right hands<br /><br />These Malakat Aiemaanuhum/Possession of "right" hands are <b>the female captives of war.</b> In a war men are killed and women and children are left behind because a war is basically between men. <b>These women are then captured in the war and because their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have died in the war, they are left alone to look after themselves without any safety. Some of them are such that if they are not taken as captives, they can rebel against the government which can take shape of another war. So for their own safety, they are captured and the Caliph distributes them amongst the Muslims and then they are in their possession, living safely under the roof of their house. </b></span><br /><br />Allah did NOT say all that in the Quran. These are YOUR opinions, and as such will not be accepted. So, I shall dissect the FACTS of your comment for debate:<br /><br />see in the next post... </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> <span style="font-size:11;"><o:p></o:p></span></p></form><p class="MsoNormal">FACTS:<br /><br /><b>1. the female captives of war</b> - Here we see that even Omer agrees that these females were CAPTIVES of WAR. (therefore they were prisoners by the invading Arabs of Muhammad's army)<br /><br /><b>2. These women are then captured in the war and <u>because</u> their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have died in the war, <u>they are left alone to look after themselves without any safety</u></b><br /><br />Here OMER tried to JUSTIFY their captivity. He uses the word BECAUSE as a justification and he uses further explanation to excuse their capture. I remind him that his explanations mean nothing. The facts are just:<br /><br /><b>These women are then captured in the war </b>. (It ends here. Everything after that was added by OMER).<br /><br />Let's imagine a different perspective of the SAME story, but using Omer's logic .<br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(132,0,132)">"The Israelis have attacked Pakistan. The Pakistani women <b>were then captured in the war</b> </span><br /><br />Now, ANSWER me this:<br /><br /><b>why would they be captured in the war? Is it...<br /><br />1. "Because" their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have ALL died in the war and they are left ALL alone to look after themselves without any safety?<br /><br />OR<br /><br />2. They were captured as a BOOTY. </b><br /><br />And also answer me this:<br /><br />1. Do you believe that a captured woman would want to have consensual sexual intercourse with her capturer? If YES, explain how and why. </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 4</span><br /><br />[Muhammad] <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">1. what set of moral values do you follow?</span><br /><br />My set of morals does not matter. I don't have to reply to you on my private business.<br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">2. Which set of moral values tell you that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral?</span><br /><br />It is immoral when it is <u>without the consent of the captive, which it was in all these cases.</u>. It is RAPE. And if you believe it is NOT immoral tell me why doesn't Islam allow you to have intercourse with "FREE WOMEN"? At least they can refuse you. Captives CANNOT refuse. They are slaves. hence the immorality in the Quran. It allows you to RAPE captives, but it does not allow you to have intercourse with FREE WOMEN unless you MARRY THEM.<br /><br />I have just proved hereby the Islam condones and encourages RAPE of captives (As Allah believes captives cannot refuse you and are at their capturers' mercy).<br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">3. What makes you believe that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral and having sexual relationship with ones wife is moral?</span><br /><br />What makes me THINK? <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_surprise.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image009.gif">Think about it boy!! Is immoral to YOU to have pre-marital sex?? YES OR NO?<br />Is immoral to YOU to have sex with anyone else apart from your wife? YES OR NO?<br /><br />If you say NO, then justify the Quran's stance on pre-marital sex and prostitution.<v:shape id="_x0000_i1052" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"></v:shape><br />(You will have to build a brain to talk to me.. trashing your arguments are far too easy!! ) </v:imagedata></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_surprise.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image009.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">4. How do you define morality?</span><br /><br />I already replied too many of your questions, when I did not have to. YOU DEFINE IT for me... define Morality as per ISLAM.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 5</span><br /><br />[muhammad] <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">That is what I asked you before that where does the quran says that you can have sexual intercourse with "your female captive" without her consent? </span><br /><br />Where does it say you must obtain her consent?<br /><br />You see, when the Quran talks about polygamy, it CLEARLY states you must obtain the consent of the first wife. </p><form></form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal">[muhammad] <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)"><span style="color:#009900;">So here the Prophet (saw) has said clearly that if a slave (Male of Female) does not satisfy you in any matter, you should NOT Punish the Servants of Allah (swt) but should let them away. So rape here is clearly prohibited.</span><br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">There is NOTHING referring to RAPE here. Rape was not considered a punishment in Islam.. still isn't. Islam does not recognise RAPE. If you disagree, show me a verse of the Quran where is CLEARLY states RAPE IS PROHIBITTED.<br /></span><br /></span><span style="color:#009900;"><span style="color:#333333;">[Muhammad]</span> Also if through sexual intercourse, the female captive gets pregnant from her master, she would automatically gain her freedom.</span><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)"><br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">It does not matter. It is NOT YOUR decision to make.</span><br /><br /></span><span style="color:red;">Point 6</span><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)"><br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">[Muhammad]</span>What is wrong in having sexual intercourse with a captive if you already have a wife? <br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">What is wrong with a wife having sexual intercourse with any man while she already has a husband? (I want an answer for that).<br /></span><br /></span><span style="color:red;">Point 7</span><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)"><br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">[Muhammad]</span> No I do not agree with that, because Islam does not permit women to do so. It's just like saying that if a man is allowed to marry 4 women, why can't a woman marry 4 men?<br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">Well? Why can't she? Give me a LOGICAL/VALID/SCIENTIFIC reason for your g-d disagreement with it. </span><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"><br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">[Muhammad]</span>So I would say that Islam prohibits that, must a certain wisdom behind its prohibition. If you think that women should also be aloud to do so, then you may do it if your religion or country allows you to do so.<br /><br /><span style="color:#333333;">LOL! Lucky for me I can do whatever I like. But I want to hear the "WISDOM" behind the above disgraceful immoral comment from your g-d though! Indulge me....<br /></span><br /><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"></span></p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal">To recap on something VERY IMPORTANT:<br /><br />[Muhammad] <b><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">Where does the Quran says that "men are permitted to treat those (whom their right hand possess) regardless of their wishes"?</span></b><br /><br />So that our friend Muhammad here knows:<br /><br />The meaning of the word captive itself means<b> held by force</b> so the women who are captives are obviously not on their own so whatever you do with them is all against their wishes.<br /><br />So it is obviously implied that you are having sex with them <b>without their consent </b>so no need to separately mention that.<br /><br />You are trying to run away from answering me, by making such comments.<br /><br />And THIS is the reason why I don't like to debate with CHILDREN.<br /><br />You either learn how to debate as an adult, and show me some INTELLECT, or I shall stop debating with you and demand someone intelligent for a change.<br />I am disappointed. I asked the Muslims to give me THEIR BEST and they come up with YOU. <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_surprise.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image009.gif"></p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 26<v:shape id="_x0000_i1060" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Resume: Questions for Muhd.Omer to answer</b><br /><b>1. Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? YES OR NO?</b><br /><br /><br />Comprehension skills test for OMER:<br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(132,0,132)">"The <u>Israelis</u> have attacked Pakistan. The <u>Pakistani women</u> were then captured in the war....</span><br /><br />Questions:<br /><br /><b>2. why would they be captured in the war? Is it...<br /><br />1. "Because" their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have ALL died in the war and they are left ALL alone to look after themselves without any safety?<br /><br />OR<br /><br />2. They were captured as a BOOTY.</b><br /><br />.... waiting...<br /><br /><b>3. Do you believe that a captured woman would want to have consensual sexual intercourse with her capturer? If YES, explain how and why.<br /><br />4.Why doesn't Islam allow you to have intercourse with "FREE WOMEN"?<br /><br />5.Is immoral to YOU to have pre-marital sex?? YES OR NO?<br /><br />6.justify the Quran's stance on pre-marital sex and prostitution<br /><br />7. define Morality as per ISLAM.<br /><br />8. Where in the Quran does it say you must obtain her(The captive's) consent?<br /><br />9. show me a verse of the Quran where it CLEARLY states RAPE IS PROHIBITTED.<br /><br />10. What is wrong with a wife having sexual intercourse with any man while she already has a husband?<br /><br />11.why can't a woman marry 4 men?Give me a LOGICAL/VALID/SCIENTIFIC reason for your g-d's disagreement with it. (Or Muhammad, who wrote the Quran himself).</b><br /><br />I want a straight reply for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I don't want you asking me questions.. I want you to reply. Is that CLEAR? </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1062" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:red;">WAITING...</span></b><br /><br />I have a lot more to ask you!<br />Hurry up. </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1064" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>12. Which noble muslim girl would love to have sex with a male who has killed her parents , husband and her brothers?</b><br /><br />The answer is obviously<u> no one. </u><br /><br />So it would be unfair on our part to assume that the slaves who had sex with the prophet agreed to it . It would also be unfair for us to assume that slaves of war today would agree to have sex with us . especially when we have killed their beloved ones.(Remember the war in Iraq?? Americans were said to have "raped"some POWs... was that so? Or shall we use Muhammad Omer's PSEUDO LOGIC to assume that all these POWs were having CONSENSUAL SEX with the Americans?</p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"><br />So if quran is telling me that it is ok to have sex with the slaves then obviously i am doing it against their wish . I am nothing but raping them so who should be blamed ??? the obvious answer is Quran because Quran gives me a permission to do this .<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Now if quran is giving me the permission to have sex with slaves then isnt quran prescribing me to rape??</span><br /><br />so you see if you go on deducing step by step logically you come to the conclusion that quran prescribes rape of slaves eventhough quran directly doesnt say rape the slaves of the war!!<br /><br />It is simple LOGIC. And this is what Muslims are lacking here..LOGIC.<br /><br /><br />Omer, REPLY to my questions.. I even made it a lot easier for you to THINK. </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1067" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 1</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? YES OR NO?</i><br /><br /><b>My Response</b><br /><br />Seriously, even if a little girl would have read my posts, she wouldn't have asked this question. I thought you are a quite grown up girl :s.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 2</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>[Morrigan] - You ANSWER my question. You do not ASK me questions.<br />Address the point.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Oh God! What an arrogant pampered rant you are! I am totally sick of this non-sense. For the last time, I am not going to say that again... so open your eyes wide and read:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">This is a "Debate". It is NOT a Question & Answer session. You will ask me questions and I will also ask you questions. You will answer my questions or admit that you have no proof or answer for them whatsoever and I too will answers your questions. Let me also teach you tiny girly that sometimes the answer to a question lies in the counter question. I hope you will understand this now.</span><br /><br />So there you go again... You said in the very first post of yours:<br /><br /><b><i>According to the eternal and unchanging scripture of Islam, men are permitted to treat them as sexual property regardless of their wishes, under certain specified circumstances.</i></b><br /><br />Kindly do us all a favor, back up this statement of yours from a verse of the Quran which says that man are permitted to treat them as sexual property regardless of their wishes.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 3</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>Allah did NOT say all that in the Quran. These are YOUR opinions, and as such will not be accepted. So, I shall dissect the FACTS of your comment for debate:</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Isaac Newton said "To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". A teacher was explaining this to a girl like Morrigan as to why he said that. The teacher gave that girl all the explanation and taught her practicles to make her understand that 3rd law of Newton, according to the level of her tiny brain. At the end the girl replied:<br /><br />"Isaac Newton did not say all that, these are YOUR opinions and such will not be accepted"<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 4</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>He uses the word BECAUSE as a justification and he uses further explanation to excuse their capture. I remind him that his explanations mean nothing. The facts are just:<br /><br />These women are then captured in the war . (It ends here. Everything after that was added by OMER).</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Explanations mean nothing to those who have no brain to understand them. If my explanations mean nothing, then:<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">PROVE it that my Explanations Means Nothing! Refute them! OR simply Accept them and stop blabbing like a little girl.</span><br /><br />Choice is YOURS!<br /><br /><u>Note:</u> If in the future I do not get any rebuttal to my explanations then it will be established that you failed to refute them. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1103" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 5</span><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>"The Israelis have attacked Pakistan. The Pakistani women were then captured in the war<br /><br />Now, ANSWER me this:<br /><br />why would they be captured in the war? Is it...<br /><br />1. "Because" their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have ALL died in the war and they are left ALL alone to look after themselves without any safety?<br /><br />OR<br /><br />2. They were captured as a BOOTY.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response</b><br /><br />You are sitting at your place and talking about what happens in a war. You are not trying to understand the real situation as to what happens in a "War". At that time, everyone use to participate in a war. The pagans use to call on the pagans to go for war and everyone use to come out to fight. The Muslims use to call all Muslims to go for war and everyone use to come out to fight. There was no organized Arm forces fighting for Muslims or the Pagans. So after the war, the situation use to be different from what it becomes today. When the Muslims use to gain victory over the pagans, those who were defeated were taken as Prisoners of war, both men and women. And yes, women use to be left helpless and thus they use to need protection. It was the duty of the caliph to distribute the Female Captives to the Soldiers so that they may dwell in their houses in safety and get equal rights as the Prophet (saw) had commanded. Food, shelter, clothing and safety, what else would they want?!<br /><br />And mark my words, the opponents, after their defeat, were taken captives ONLY if they were bent on enemity and destruction of Islam. And if their use to be no prisoner exchange between the two parties.<br /><br />Also the Caliph has got three options:<br /><br />1. If the prisoners are really dangerous to be freed or kept as slaves and there is a fear of rebellion from them and have committed serious crimes in the past, the Caliph can order their execution.<br /><br />2. If the prisoners do not belong to the first category, the caliph can ransom them or free them seeking the good pleasure of Allah (swt).<br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal">3. Or he can distribute them among the soldiers to live with them under one roof which would provide them shelter and safety.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 6</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>And also answer me this:<br /><br />1. Do you believe that a captured woman would want to have consensual sexual intercourse with her capturer? If YES, explain how and why.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Why wouldn't she?! When she is been given a good life to live with her capturer, then why would she refuse? or Why SHOULD she refuse? The capturer has not locked her up in the dungeons and torture her like the Israelites or Amercians do. <v:shape id="_x0000_i1104" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"></v:shape><!--[if !vml]--><img height="15" src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif" width="15" border="0" shapes="_x0000_i1104" /><!--[endif]-->She eats what the capturer eats, gets clothing of the same quality the capturer wears, she is not over-burdened with any work. She aquires knowledge of Islam and gets the benefit of gaining the Light of Islam. Many of them reverted to Islam when they use to see their capturers practicing Islam and the rights given to them which were not given to anyone before, not even now.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 7</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>It is immoral when it is without the consent of the captive, which it was in all these cases.. It is RAPE. And if you believe it is NOT immoral tell me why doesn't Islam allow you to have intercourse with "FREE WOMEN"? At least they can refuse you. Captives CANNOT refuse. They are slaves. hence the immorality in the Quran. It allows you to RAPE captives, but it does not allow you to have intercourse with FREE WOMEN unless you MARRY THEM.<br /><br />I have just proved hereby the Islam condones and encourages RAPE of captives (As Allah believes captives cannot refuse you and are at their capturers' mercy).</i><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />You are proving things only to your limited understanding and that tiny walnut inside your head.<br /><br />Oh yes, It Surely is Immoral to have intercourse with your female captive of war without her consent. Islam does not permit that.<br /><br />If Islam would allow us to have intercourse with "FREE WOMEN" then every Muslim would be roaming around and having intercourse with FREE WOMEN BECAUSE FREE WOMEN also have intercourse WILLINGLY as it happens in the West and in YOUR Country, and having Intercourse with FREE WOMEN is FORNICATION. In your society men can have tons of Girl Friends and have intercourse with them and then kick them away. In the case of Captives, it ONLY happens in the WAR, a legal Islamic War behind which there is a Caliph a Muslim leader and when Shariah Law is totally Implemented. You can not go around and capture woman and say that this is my captive and I am going to have intercourse with her!<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 8</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>What makes me THINK? Think about it boy!! Is immoral to YOU to have pre-marital sex?? YES OR NO?<br />Is immoral to YOU to have sex with anyone else apart from your wife? YES OR NO?<br /><br />If you say NO, then justify the Quran's stance on pre-marital sex and prostitution.<br /><br />(You will have to build a brain to talk to me.. trashing your arguments are far too easy!! )</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />I don't really need to "build" a brain... Allah (swt) has already gifted me with and I am thankful to Him for that. So kindly wake up and stop dreaming about "Trashing your Arguments" and act mature. I really doubt that you will ever grow up... Mentally!<br /><br />Now listen kid, having sex with a woman with whom you are bonded in "Marriage" is Made Lawful by the Religion I follow. By the Moral Values I follow. It is also made Lawful by the Moral Values and Religion that YOU Follow. Just like that my Religion has allowed sexual relationship with female captives of War. So who in the hell says that it is IMMORAL?<br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1106" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> </v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;"><v:shape alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span><b><span style="color:red;">The topic you started was "Immorality in Quran i.e. Sex with Female Captives of War" and from the beginning till now, YOU have miserably Failed to Prove that</span></b><br /><br />style="color:red;">Point 9<br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>I already replied too many of your questions, when I did not have to. YOU DEFINE IT for me... define Morality as per ISLAM.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Fine! You do not answer my Question, Neither will I answer Yours. Then you will be left alone to babble with walls in your room.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 10</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>Where does it say yuo must obtain her consent?<br /><br />You see, when the Quran talks about polygamy, it CLEARLY states you must obtain the consent of the first wife.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />lol... Quote that Verse of the Quran which CLEARLY states that you must obtain the consent of the First wife. You little ignorant girl! <v:shape id="_x0000_i1107" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"></v:shape><!--[if !vml]--><img height="15" src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif" width="15" border="0" shapes="_x0000_i1107" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />Having intercourse with female captives of war without their Consent is Rape. And for Rape there is punishment which is Flogging & Exile or Death Penalty. The Prophet (saw) commanded us not even to Overburden those whom Allah (swt) has put under your Authority, so how can anyone have intercourse with them without their consent? YOU Answer me that now.<br /><br /><b><span style="color:red;">Point of the Debate: Islam permits Muslims to have intercourse with captives of war without their Consent.<br />And this girly has miserably Failed to prove that till now.</span></b><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1108" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 11</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>There is NOTHING referring to RAPE here. Rape was not considered a punishment in Islam.. still isn't. Islam does not recognise RAPE. If you disagree, show me a verse of the Quran where is CLEARLY states RAPE IS PROHIBITTED.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Showing your ignorance again. The Shariah Law is derived from The Quran and The Sunnah of the Prophet (saw). Why from the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw)? Because the Quran says to Follow the Messenger Muhammad (saw). Because the Quran says that Whosever obeys the Messenger, Has Obeyed Allah (swt).<br /><br /><b>Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:<br /><br />"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.<br /><br />She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.<br /><br />He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.<br /><br />He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"</b><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1109" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> </v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;"><v:shape alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span><span style="color:red;">Point 12:</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>What is wrong with a wife having sexual intercourse with any man while she already has a husband? (I want an answer for that).</i><br /><br />No girly, you give me an answer for that. It is YOU who think that it is Wrong... not I. So answer this question now like a goody goody girl.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 13</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>No I do not agree with that, because Islam does not permit women to do so. It's just like saying that if a man is allowed to marry 4 women, why can't a woman marry 4 men?<br /><br />Well? Why can't she? Give me a LOGICAL/VALID/SCIENTIFIC reason for your g-d disagreement with it</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />lol... I don't need to look for any logical/valid/scientific reason for that. It is just against the common laws of nature. This thing if practiced anywhere, has been practiced in minority. Go and ask your "g<span style="color:red;">-</span>d's" Religion and your countries law makers as to why don't they allow this to happen and why don't women generally practice or practiced it?</v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1111" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 14</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>The meaning of the word captive itself means held by force so the women who are captives are obviously not on their own so whatever you do with them is all against their wishes.<br /><br />So it is obviously implied that you are having sex with them without their consent so no need to separately mention that.</i><br /><br />Yeah, Held By Force but Treated Like Humans. I gave you tons of ahadith in the previous posts which tell us that we CAN NOT Make Them Do Thinkgs Against Their Wishes.<br /><br />Next time before posting, go through all the posts 10 times.<br /><br />Your Last 10 Questions have been answered above, you don't have to act like a parrot here.<br /><br /><b>You said:</b><br /><br /><i>I don't want you asking me questions.. I want you to reply. Is that CLEAR?</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />I will ask YOU Questions and YOU will HAVE TO Answer Every Question I ask Just like I reply to Your Questions. Or Else ignoring my questions and running away for you isn't that difficult, so you can very well do that.<br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1112" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i>Omer, REPLY to my questions.. I even made it a lot easier for you to THINK.</i><br /><br />Have patience baby girl. *Pats on Morrigans Head*. Everyone isn't hopping around freely like you. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1114" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> </v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;"><v:shape alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span><span style="color:red;">Point 1 </span><br /><br />[Morrigan] Question: <span style="color:blue;"><br />Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? <b>YES OR NO?</b></span><br /><br />[Muhammad] His reply: <span style="color:#009900;">- Seriously, even if a little girl would have read my posts, she wouldn't have asked this question. I thought you are a quite grown up girl :s<br /><br /></span>The above reply was IGNORED. Answer YES OR NO.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 2.</span><br /><br />It will be ignored. All gibberish.<br /><br />[Muhammad] <b>Kindly do us all a favor, back up this statement of<br />yours from a verse of the Quran which says that man are<br />permitted to treat them as sexual property regardless of their wishes. </b><br /><br />Already REPLIED here:<br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=2500808&tid=2545677157072639883&na=4&nst=9&nid=2500808-2545677157072639883-2545841501867634431" target="_blank">http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=2500808&tid=2545677157072639883&na=4&nst=9&nid=2500808-2545677157072639883-2545841501867634431</a><br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 3</span><br /><br /><b>A teacher was<br />explaining this to a girl like Morrigan as to why he said that.<br />The teacher gave that girl all the explanation and taught her practicles<br />to make her understand that 3rd law of Newton, according to the level of <u>her tiny brain</u></b><br /><br />... such idiocy will not be accepted. I am not insulting you, therefore I expect the same cordiality. Insults are for losers. Are you a loser? It seems so..<br /><br />To EVERYONE:<br /><br />Note how Muhammad Omer has AVOIDED replies to 2 points. Points 2 and 3 were ignored by him. T<v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif">he cracks are beginning to show.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 4</span><br /><br />Muhammad avoids addressing the point and instead says this:<br /><br /><b>Explanations mean nothing to <u>those who have no brain</u> to understand them. </b><br /><br />He prefers to INSULT instead of addressing the points. <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif">Priceless!<br /><br />And for the ones who forgot.. refer to his<span style="color:red;"> point 4</span> in the previous posts. He is upset that I cannot accept his idiotic explanations/excuses/justifications for the crimes committed by Muslims for Islam.<br /><br />The funniest thing is that he is truly expecting me to BELIEVE in the following:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">These women are then captured in the war <b>"Because" their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have ALL died in the war and they are left ALL alone to look after themselves without any safety</b></span><br /><br />LOL!! And he wonders WHY I cannot accept such statement. hahaha.. oh boy oh boy!!!<br /><br />Read the following (To all people) - And please, feel free to comment on this in another thread.. I am here laughing actually! hehehe<br /><br /><b>You are sitting at your place and talking about what happens in a war.<br />You are not trying to understand the real situation as to what happens<br />in a "War". At that time, everyone use to participate in a war.<br />The pagans use to call on the pagans to go for war and<br />everyone use to come out to fight.<br />The Muslims use to call all Muslims to go for war and<br />everyone use to come out to fight. There was no organized Arm<br />forces fighting for Muslims or the Pagans. So after the war, the situation<br />use to be different from what it becomes today. When the Muslims use to<br />gain victory over the pagans, those who were defeated were taken as<br />Prisoners of war, both men and women. And yes, women use to be left helpless<br />and thus they use to need protection. It was the duty of the caliph to distribute<br />the Female Captives to the Soldiers so that they may dwell in their houses in safety and get<br />equal rights as the Prophet (saw) had commanded. Food, shelter, clothing and safety,<br />what else would they want?! </b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1118" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> </v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;"><v:shape alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span>The above shows not only a very high level of ignorance, bordering on stupidity, and a very great lack of disrespect not only for Historical evidence but for WOMEN's RIGHTS and tehir feelings.<br /><br />[Muhammad] - <span style="color:red;">And mark my words, the opponents, after their defeat, were taken captives <b>ONLY</b> if they were bent on enemity and destruction of Islam. </span><br /><br />LOL!! Hear hear everyone!! We all know that ALL the women and children these monsters captured and RAPED were indeed hell bent on destruction of Islam!! LOL!<br />Well, I guess after this they indeed were! <v:shape id="_x0000_i1119" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"></v:shape><!--[if !vml]--><img height="15" src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif" width="15" border="0" shapes="_x0000_i1119" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />Here we have a Muslim teenager, totally ignorant in Historical events, using his own bullshit in an attempt to convince an archaeologist/historian.. hehehee<br /><br />(I am really trying to remain calm and not humiliate him)... such disregard for history... I feel like banging my head against the wall. <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><br /><br />Muhammad, in other words.. please do not waste my time with BULLSHIT. Ok? Limit yourself to REPLYING my questions. When you try to talk, only crap comes out... and I am getting irritated.<br /><br />Your <span style="color:red;">Point 5</span> was a JOKE. Not worth of my replies. </p><form><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1122" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 6 </span><br /><br />[Morrigan asks Muhammad] <span style="color:blue;">1. Do you believe that a captured woman would want to have consensual sexual intercourse with her capturer? If YES, explain how and why.</span><br /><br />[Muhammad's reply] - Why wouldn't she?! When she is been given a good life to live with her capturer, then why would she refuse?<br /><br />===========<br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">Conclusion of point 6:<br /><br /><b>Muhammad believes that a woman has NO RIGHT to refuse INTERCOURSE/SEX/RAPE with her captors.<br />Instead of answering YES or NO, he asks people WHY WOULD SHE REFUSE. Muhammad failed miserably to take HER FEELINGS into consideration, and instead prefrs to accept his own idiotic lack of logic. </b></span><br /><br />Please all of you, write down the conclusions separatedly as we will discuss them later.. I will use them to fight against the cause of Islam. Pay attention!!!<br /><br /><b><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">CONCLUSION of Point 7 </span></b><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)"><br /><br />Based on the above idiotic replies from Muhammad Omer, and the overwhelming evidence that Islam (and Muslims) believe that a woman has NO RIGHT to complain against sexual intercourse with her, we conclude hereby that Islam ENCOURAGES RAPE and illegal sexual intercourse with FEMALE CAPTIVES (males too in some cases).<br /><br />Now I will paste Omer's desperate attempt to justify the IMMORALITY in the Quran and Islam: .... next post. (Let us all LAUGH or CRY together)</span> </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1124" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">Here it is:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">If Islam would allow us to have intercourse with "FREE WOMEN" then every<br />Muslim would be roaming around and having intercourse with FREE WOMEN BECAUSE FREE WOMEN also have intercourse WILLINGLY as it happens in the West and in YOUR Country, and having Intercourse with FREE WOMEN is FORNICATION.</span><br /><br />LOL, note that Omer does not say that sex with CAPTIVES (i.e. RAPE) is fornication. As per ISLAM, it is OK to RAPE a woman by force, but it is NOT ok to ASK her consent and obtain it.<br /><br />(One moment.. I am going to vomit....) ..........................<br />Ok... back!<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">In your society men can have tons of Girl Friends and have intercourse with them and then kick them away. In the case of Captives, it ONLY happens<br />in the WAR, a legal Islamic War behind which there is a Caliph a Muslim leader and when Shariah Law is totally Implemented. You can not go around and capture woman and say that this is my captive and I am going to have intercourse with her! </span><br /><br />LOL!! The more he speaks the more he COMPROMISES Islam.<br /><br />THank you Omer! This is all I wanted to know.<br /><br />Conclusion:<br /><br /><b>ISLAM ENCOURAGES RAPE BUT DOES NOT ENCOURAGE LOVE AND RESPECT</b><br /><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><br /><br />I hope my Hindu (and other non muslim friends) are reading this and taking notes, for we will come to the end of this debate and have a JUDGEMENT on ISLAM. </v:imagedata></p><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"><p class="MsoNormal"><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 9</span><br /><br />Muhammad refuses to DEFINE IMMORALITY as per Islam. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><br />[Muhammad] - <b>Islam <u>permits Muslims to have intercourse with captives of war without their Consent.</u><br />And this girly has miserably Failed to prove that till now. </b><br /><br /><span style="color:#cc33cc;"><strong>Here we are... Muhammad CONFESSED/AGREED/ACCEPTED that Islam does indeed PERMIT Muslims to RAPE captives of war. And this "girly" has proven just that!!!</strong></span><br /><br /><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1130" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">Muhammad refused to answer this question:<br /><br /><b>What is wrong with a wife having sexual intercourse with any man while<br />she already has a husband? (I want an answer for that).</b><br /><br />But he said this:<br /><br /><b>lol... I don't need to look for any logical/valid/scientific reason for that.<br />It is just against the common laws of nature. </b><br /><br />hahaha! DEFINE the common laws of nature please.<br /><br /><b>This thing if practiced anywhere, has been practiced in minority.<br />Go and ask your "g-d's" Religion and your countries law makers as to<br />why don't they allow this to happen and why don't women generally practice or practiced it? </b><br /><br />Who says they don't? What do you know of World history? LOL!!<br /><br />===========<br />When I explained to Omer that a captive means to be HELD by force, he said:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Yeah, Held By Force but Treated Like Humans.</span><br /><br />hahahahah!!! No comment to such idiocy. </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p></form><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1132" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Questions that Muhd. Omer did NOT answer yet:</b><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,132)">1. Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? YES OR NO?</span><br /><br /><br /><b><span style="color:red;">A story based on Omer's logic:</span></b><span style="color:red;"><br /><br />"The Americans have attacked Pakistan (Muhammad's home to be more precise) .<br />They captured his mother, his sisters, his aunts and grandmother in this invasion.<br />They also captured his two younger brothers. His father, his grandfather and his 3 uncles were first tortured,<br />then murdered.<br />His mother, his sisters and his 2 younger brothers were gang raped and kept as captives.<br />(Meaning, they are going to be raped again and again<br />at the mercy of the generals) , HOWEVER, they are very well fed, and have clean clothes and a decent bed to sleep on,<br />which is the same bed where the army generals sleep on too. </span><br /><br />Questions for Muhammad:<br /><br /><b>1. Should your mother, sisters, gran and aunties be GRATEFUL to the merciful Americans since they are<br />well fed, clothed and have a bed to sleep on?<br /><br />2. Have your mother, sisters, gran and aunties got any right to complain about being RAPED daily?</b><br /><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><br /><br />He hasn't yet replied to these ones:<br /><br /><b>6.justify the Quran's stance on pre-marital sex and prostitution<br /><br />7. define Morality as per ISLAM.<br /><br />8. Where in the Quran does it say you must obtain her(The captive's) consent?<br /><br />9. show me a verse of the Quran where it CLEARLY states RAPE IS PROHIBITTED.<br /><br />10. What is wrong with a wife having sexual intercourse with any man while she already has a husband?<br /><br />11.why can't a woman marry 4 men?Give me a LOGICAL/VALID/SCIENTIFIC reason for your g-d's disagreement with it. (Or Muhammad, who wrote the Quran himself).<br /><br />12. Which noble muslim girl would love to have sex with a male who has killed her parents , husband and her brothers? (You can ask any Muslim female to reply to this)</b><br /><br />I won't leave you alone until you reply. Yallah...... !!! </p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060">Morrigan</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11;">Jul 27<v:shape id="_x0000_i1136" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></v:shape></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">Muhammad Omer??? Where are youuuuuuhuuuuuuuu?<v:shape id="_x0000_i1137" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"></v:shape>I want answers, jaan!!<br /><br />One more question you can answer me:<br /><br /><b>13. Do you speak Arabic?</b> </p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p></form><p class="MsoNormal">You are still the same roberta I debated with 2-3 years back. I thought you might have grown up up till now, but sadly you haven't. It seems that from your birth till now, you have only grown up physically. Mentality is still that of a baby girl. What a little coward you really are, getting stomped by everyone in all the communities, now you hide behind a fake profile. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif">Guess what? Your response only shows that you are frustrated now and it only proves to the reader that you are mentaly ill. Do yourself a favor, join a good theater and show your acting skills over there, you can become a good entertainer for people like yourself.<br /><br />Brother Sharjeel, with all due respect, next time please do not get me hooked in a debate with immature babies. Jazakallah khair.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 1</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>[Morrigan] Question:<br />Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? YES OR NO?<br /><br />[Muhammad] His reply: - Seriously, even if a little girl would have read my posts, she wouldn't have asked this question. I thought you are a quite grown up girl :s<br /><br />The above reply was IGNORED. Answer YES OR NO.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Because your pea sized walnut could not get the answer to this question of yours from my posts, so here you go:<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">"Yes"</span><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> <v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 2</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>... such idiocy will not be accepted. I am not insulting you, therefore I expect the same cordiality. Insults are for losers. Are you a loser? It seems so..<br /><br />To EVERYONE:<br /><br />Note how Muhammad Omer has AVOIDED replies to 2 points. Points 2 and 3 were ignored by him. - the cracks are beginning to show.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />You are not insulting me? I know that very well actually. Neither am I insulting you, I just gave my comments on your posts. So these are your posts which are are insulting you, not me. Let me get your Points 2 and 3 here which you think I did not responded to.<br /><br />I have Avoided?! <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif">Let me give some advice. Go and splash your face with water, take a nap of at least 40 mins, then read my posts again... 3 times over. Oh... and don't forget to grow up.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red;">Point 3</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /><i>Muhammad avoids addressing the point and instead says this:<br /><br />Explanations mean nothing to those who have no brain to understand them.<br /><br />He prefers to INSULT instead of addressing the points. - Priceless!<br /><br />And for the ones who forgot.. refer to his point 4 in the previous posts. He is upset that I cannot accept his idiotic explanations/excuses/justifications for the crimes committed by Muslims for Islam.<br /><br />The funniest thing is that he is truly expecting me to BELIEVE in the following:<br /><br />These women are then captured in the war "Because" their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers have ALL died in the war and they are left ALL alone to look after themselves without any safety<br /><br />LOL!! And he wonders WHY I cannot accept such statement. hahaha.. oh boy oh boy!!!<br /><br />Read the following (To all people) - And please, feel free to comment on this in another thread.. I am here laughing actually! hehehe</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Hey... I didn't know that you are affected with pseudobulbar palsy disease. Go and get checked by a good doctor. I am saying that for your own good. So don't take it as an insult. <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><br />Yeah I really wonder why I can not accept such statement :s... probably because you are ignorant of what happens in wars. So go and learn about wars, take history classes from some good instituite rather then learning history from Answering Islam </v:imagedata></p><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><p class="MsoNormal"><br />Oh girly! It is not necessary that they all would die, that was a general statement to make your pea sized brain understand as to what happens in a war. As I said before, in those days every member of a house use to take part in wars. Some women use to take part in wars too.<br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823">Mohammad</a> </p><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;">Lets say there is family with 4 male members and 3 females. All the males took part in the war against Muslims. 2 of them got killed and the rest 2 were taken as captives of war. The 3 females are now left alone without anyone to take care of them. The place where they live is not secure anymore because of the war. So they were taken as captives. The caliph distributed them to the Muslim soldiers. Now they had a safe roof to shelter them and living and comfort was provided by their captors. On the other hand, many men, children and females are also taken as captives. Many of them are ransomed and many of them are free to go.<br /><br />If the Caliph were to free them all, then the government is in trouble, how? That is how:<br /><br />a) Islamic Government is to provide living for all its citizens who can not earn for themselves. If the captives are freed, the government could not support them because it is not rich enough to do so.<br /><br />b) Many of them might group together and plan attacks on Muslims and put their life in trouble.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 4</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>LOL!! Hear hear everyone!! We all know that ALL the women and children these monsters captured and RAPED were indeed hell bent on destruction of Islam!! LOL!<br />Well, I guess after this they indeed were!<br /><br />Here we have a Muslim teenager, totally ignorant in Historical events, using his own bullshit in an attempt to convince an archaeologist/historian.. hehehee<br /><br />(I am really trying to remain calm and not humiliate him)... such disregard for history... I feel like banging my head against the wall.<br /><br />Muhammad, in other words.. please do not waste my time with BULLSHIT. Ok? Limit yourself to REPLYING my questions. When you try to talk, only crap comes out... and I am getting irritated.<br /><br />Your Point 5 was a JOKE. Not worth of my replies.</i><br /><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />I Really Doubt If Anyone Can "Hear" You! <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_surprise.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image009.gif">The only funny thing till now is that you from the beginning till you could not provide a SINGLE proof that the females captives of war were "Raped".<br /><br />You are an archaeologist/historian?<v:shape id="_x0000_i1183" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"> <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"></v:shape>That is the second biggest joke I have found in this whole thread. *Giggles*<br /><br />You will get irritated when you will bang your head against the wall and make that pea sized walnut in your head weaker then ever before and when you will keep on failing to prove your points and dream about "Crushing Arguements" and "Winning the Debate" <v:shape id="_x0000_i1184" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"></v:shape><!--[if !vml]--><img height="15" src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif" width="15" border="0" shapes="_x0000_i1184" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />Here we have a scared Jewish kid dreaming about crushing arguements, winning debates and hidding behind fake profiles <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif">Now wake up and stop dreaming kiddo </v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></span></p><span style="font-size:85%;"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_surprise.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image009.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_angry.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image031.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><p class="MsoNormal"><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 5</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>[Morrigan asks Muhammad] 1. Do you believe that a captured woman would want to have consensual sexual intercourse with her capturer? If YES, explain how and why.<br /><br />[Muhammad's reply] - Why wouldn't she?! When she is been given a good life to live with her capturer, then why would she refuse?<br /><br />===========<br /><br />Conclusion of point 6:<br /><br />Muhammad believes that a woman has NO RIGHT to refuse INTERCOURSE/SEX/RAPE with her captors.<br />Instead of answering YES or NO, he asks people WHY WOULD SHE REFUSE. Muhammad failed miserably to take HER FEELINGS into consideration, and instead prefrs to accept his own idiotic lack of logic.<br /><br />Please all of you, write down the conclusions separatedly as we will discuss them later.. I will use them to fight against the cause of Islam. Pay attention!!!</i><br /></span><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Whoaaaaaa!!! Showing your expertise in twisting others statements? Let me make it clear for you as to what I meant when I said that.<br /><br />Every woman has her physical needs which she needs to be fulfilled and in order for them not to indulge in something like prostitution this was made legal and because of her physical needs she will want to have physical contact with man and at that time she can have it and it would be legitimate and she will not be labelled as a sinner in Islam.<br /><br />Tiny girl robby has a brain tinier than a pea. She could not come up with a single argument to say why would a woman feel to refuse and then she rants like a little baby.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 6</span><br /><b>You Said</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>As per ISLAM, it is OK to RAPE a woman by force, but it is NOT ok to ASK her consent and obtain it.<br /><br />(One moment.. I am going to vomit....) ..........................<br />Ok... back!</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />blah blah blah... Now I am really very very serious robby. Before you post the next response, go and get checked up by a good doctor. Seriously...I am concerned about your health. Vomiting so much is not normal for a woman unless she is pregnant.<br /></span><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><span style="font-size:85%;color:#ff0000;">Point 7</span></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>[Muhammad] - Islam permits Muslims to have intercourse with captives of war without their Consent.<br />And this girly has miserably Failed to prove that till now.<br /><br />Here we are... Muhammad CONFESSED/AGREED/ACCEPTED that Islam does indeed PERMIT Muslims to RAPE captives of war. And this "girly" has proven just that!!!</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Tiny girly please learn to comprehend english or if you want then I will ask someone to translate it for you in a language you understand.<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 8</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>This thing if practiced anywhere, has been practiced in minority.<br />Go and ask your "g-d's" Religion and your countries law makers as to<br />why don't they allow this to happen and why don't women generally practice or practiced it?<br /><br />Who says they don't? What do you know of World history? LOL!!</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />I said "Generally"... for God's sake work on your comprehension skills you lil arrogant girl </span></v:imagedata></p><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><span style="font-size:85%;"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><p class="MsoNormal"><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 9</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>When I explained to Omer that a captive means to be HELD by force, he said:<br /><br />Yeah, Held By Force but Treated Like Humans.<br /><br />hahahahah!!! No comment to such idiocy.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Idiocy lies in your pea sized walnut (Now I doubt if you even possess that!) When you utterly Fail to refute or respond to something, you run away by saying "No Comments" "Ignored"... <v:shape id="_x0000_i1191" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"></v:shape><!--[if !vml]--><img height="15" src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif" width="15" border="0" shapes="_x0000_i1191" /><!--[endif]-->You will keep running away like this till the end of this debate. Remember that!<br /></span><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><span style="color:red;">Point 10</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>Questions that Muhd. Omer did NOT answer yet:<br />1. Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? YES OR NO?</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />I can only laugh at you know... you lil Morran <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Point 11</span><br /><b>You Said:</b><br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>(..Your Story of Americans Attacking Pakistan...)<br />1. Should your mother, sisters, gran and aunties be GRATEFUL to the merciful Americans since they are<br />well fed, clothed and have a bed to sleep on?<br /><br />2. Have your mother, sisters, gran and aunties got any right to complain about being RAPED daily?</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Robby! Seriously... either you dont know english or you have no intelligence to comprehend the arguments or the brain to know what validates an argument. It is sad to see you in this mental state. I feel for you. Now see little child let me explain. For you to want me to answer those questions you have to prove that Islam permits raping. You have <b><span style="color:red;">FAILED</span></b> miserably in doing so....so here is the deal.<br />let me explain it to your pea-sized brain again.<br /><br /><b>PROVE</b> that Islam permits raping. Now if you think you can then go ahead. If you cannot then just remain silent because you are making a fool of yourself.<br /></span><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_smile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image018.gif"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b><span style="color:red;">Your Questions:</span></b><br /><br /><i>6.justify the Quran's stance on pre-marital sex and prostitution</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />If pre-marital sex is legalized, then you can do it with anyone at anytime, just like animals. It leads to confusion of lineage, child abuse, the breaking up of families, bitterness in relationships, the spread of veneral diseases, and a general laxity in morals; moreover, it opens the door to a flood of lust and self gratification and the society becomed an animal society, not that of humans. That is why every religion commands its followers to abstain from pre-marital sex. So it is completely different from what we are discussing here.<br /><br />Prostitution? Sex market... it is against the dignity of women and besides have got many other bad affects on the society. Again, completely different from the topic we are discussing.<br /><br />Don't try to run away... stay focused!<br /><br /><i>7. define Morality as per ISLAM.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />I won't define Morality according to Islam till you answer my following Questions from which you have been running away like a scared cat:<br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><b><span style="color:red;">what set of moral values do you follow?<br /><br />Which set of moral values tell you that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral?<br /><br />What makes you believe that having sexual relationship with female captives of war is immoral and having sexual relationship with ones wife is moral?<br /><br />How do you define morality?</span></b><br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">I want a sane and mature reply to these questions rather then HAHAHA LOL which comes out of you because of the disease with which you are affected with. Don't forget to get treated before giving me a response.</span><br /></span><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>8. Where in the Quran does it say you must obtain her(The captive's) consent?</i><br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;- ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #36)</span><br /><br />Allah (swt) has commanded to do Good to your Right Hand Possessions. Having intercourse with the Female Captive without her consent is RAPE which is Evil in the Sight of Islam.<br /><br /><i>9. show me a verse of the Quran where it CLEARLY states RAPE IS PROHIBITTED.</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), obeys Allah. But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds). ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #80)</span> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p></span> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:<br /><br />"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.<br /><br />She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.<br /><br />He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.<br /><br />He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"</b><br /><br />Refer to Point 11 here:<br /><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=2500808&tid=2545677157072639883&na=3&nst=21&nid=2500808-2545677157072639883-2545841501867634431" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:85%;">http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=2500808&tid=2545677157072639883&na=3&nst=21&nid=2500808-2545677157072639883-2545841501867634431</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /><br />Tiny girly you really needs to work on you comprehension skills. *Sigh*<br /></span><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1185038330/88370943.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=837148633618122823"><span style="font-size:85%;">Mohammad</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> </span><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>10. What is wrong with a wife having sexual intercourse with any man while she already has a husband?</i><br /><br /><b>My Response:</b><br /><br />Woman has physical needs and to satisfy it if she does not have a male partner to satisfy she can become a prostitute. So to prevent this from happening she is given a legal person to satisfy her needs and take care of her. Men to become male prostitutes in an islamic society is less likely as no one will use their services. It is different from where you come from where women dont mind male prostitutes. so the chances of corruption in society are less likely and the male slaves are allowed to marry so they can marry and satisfy any needs.<br /><br />Further it should also be noted that a female is highly likely to develop STD when she has multiple sexual partners e.g. Bacterial Vaginosis<br /><br />Islam also gives importance to lineage. If a woman sleeps with both her husband and slave, how can you determine the lineage of the child?<br /><br />So due to lineage, diseases and the biological danger to a a woman it is not safe for her to have many partners.<br /><br /><i>11.why can't a woman marry 4 men?Give me a LOGICAL/VALID/SCIENTIFIC reason for your g-d's disagreement with it. (Or Muhammad, who wrote the Quran himself).</i><br /><br />Refer to answer to your question 10 (above).<br /><br /><i>12. Which noble muslim girl would love to have sex with a male who has killed her parents , husband and her brothers? (You can ask any Muslim female to reply to this)</i><br /><br />Who told you that all the women captured in the war were noble? Have you any written statements from them that they were noble? If so kindly produce them.<br /><br />Those who were noble wouldnt...and those who felt that their physical needs needed to be fulfilled did.<br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><i>Muhammad Omer??? Where are youuuuuuhuuuuuuuu?<br />I want answers, jaan!!</i><br /><br />Getting impatient like a baby girl again! Huh! As I told you, I have got a life outside orkut as well.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>Addressing the POINTS</b><br />Question:<br /><br /><b>Is sex with slave-girls lawful as per Quran/Islam? YES OR NO?</b><br /><br />[Muhammad] <b>YES</b><br />=====================================<br />Good. First question was replied. So as everyone can see, from the mouths of Muslims... Quran does allow the immorality of having sex with slave girls (But not with FREE WOMEN).<br /><br />This is easily explained by the Muslim's fear of rejection. They can have forced intercourse with a CAPTIVE because she is a captive and she cannot complain. According to Muhammad, she should also be GRATEFUL for this attack on HER BODY.<br /><br /><b>Conclusion No.1</b><br /><br /><span style="color:red;">The Quran encourages RAPE. But does NOT encourage LOVE or respect</span><br /><br />======================================<br /><br />I asked Muhammad AGAIN, for the 3rd time, this question:<br /><br /><b>1. Do you believe that a captured woman would want to have consensual sexual intercourse with her capturer? If YES, explain how and why.</b><br /><br />First he replied with another question: <span style="color:red;">Why wouldn't she?! When she is been given a good life to live with her capturer, then why would she refuse?</span><br /><br />Which let's face it... it makes any DECENT MAN in this planet vomit with such disregard for HUMAN RIGHTS. (Islam is also against human rights, as you can see).<br /><br />Then, he attempts to give another reply to that question.. here it is..<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Every woman has her physical needs which she needs to be fulfilled and in order for them not to indulge in something like prostitution this was made legal and because of her physical needs she will want to have physical contact with man and at that time she can have it and it would be legitimate and she will not be labelled as a sinner in Islam.</span><br /><br />Here you can see how Muhammad is truly an ignoramus. He FAILED to address the issue of THE WOMAN'S WISHES.<br /><br />To Muhammad, it is ok to be RAPED by her captors, but not ok for her to have sex with SOMEONE SHE WANTS. (In Omer's crazy world, it has to be with HER CAPTORS, so she is not called a SINNER). <o:p></o:p></span></p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060"><span style="font-size:85%;">Morrigan</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></form><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;">I don't have any desire to go around in circles here in this debate.<br />Muhammad has clearly lost the debate and also his sanity with it. Not to mention that he looks now totally ridiculous and is seen as an ignorant chauvinist pig. <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"><br /><br /><b>CONCLUSION</b><br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">Islam permits a MALE CAPTOR to force a woman onto sex, rape her and even provides no punishment for such thing, as Allah is merciful. However, if a woman wishes to have sex with someone she loves, or someone of her choice (Captive or not), Islam condemns them as SINNERS. Islam has absolutely no regards for Human rights or respect for FEMALES. Islam allows every dirty business for MEN's sake and DEMONIZES women to such an extent that they remove from them their self respect.</span><br /><br />* going to vomit again*.......<br />==========================<br /><br /><b>PROVE that Islam permits raping.</b><br /><br />Proved as above. Islam ALLOWS raping captives.<br /><br />(A) Nowhere in the Quran it is mentioned that the captor MUST OBTAIN HER CONSENT FIRST.<br />(B) Nowhere in the Quran it is mentioned the possibility of the woman refusing (that is because they don't really give a shit about that. They rape her if she refuses).<br />(C) The Quran also mentions (as a bonus) that if a MAN forces the captive into PROSTITUTION ,Allah will forgive him.<br /><br />That clearly shows the disturbingly SICK disregard for JUSTICE in Islam. Allah is sick himself.<br /><br /><br /><br />ps. I won't return the insults that Muhammad Omer dished out to me, because I have no time for such idiocy, so most of his posts making idiotic comments and insults will be ignored. <o:p></o:p></span></p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060"><span style="font-size:85%;">Morrigan</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></form><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;">I asked:<br /><br /><b>6.justify the Quran's stance on pre-marital sex and prostitution</b><br /><br />Here is Muhammad's reply:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">If pre-marital sex is legalized, then you can do it with anyone at anytime, <b>just like animals. It leads to confusion of lineage, child abuse, the breaking up of families, bitterness in relationships, the spread of veneral diseases, and a general laxity in morals; moreover, it opens the door to a flood of lust and self gratification and the society becomed an animal society, not that of humans. </b>That is why every religion commands its followers to abstain from pre-marital sex. So it is completely different from what we are discussing here.</span><br /><br />Muhammad did not explain Islam's stance on it. He used Zakir Naik' s disturbing ignorance to support his point. <v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><br /><br />Note that: a CAPTIVE is not married to her captors, and yet, the immoral rape is allowed. Islam does not not even address the fact that the MAN could be carrying the disease and spreading it back and forth between wifes and captives.<br />The whole picture of it is one of overwhelming immorality.<br /><br />Muhammad furthermore, tries to JUSTIFY his sick stance by giving NON-SCIENTIFIC opinions about what HE THINKS could happen, and fails MISERABLY to realize that other cultures have a very different view on this.<br /><br />Muhammad, in his lack of intellect and low self esteem, believes that every person who has a girlfriend/boyfriend and has a LOVING SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP with them, is a dirty bastard..while insisting that RAPE is better than LOVE.<br /><br />hahahahahha!! Jesus Christ!!! What a disease we have amongst us!!<br /><br />Note also how he talks about lust and animal behaviour... perhaps because the men of his society are all animals.. otherwise why would he think this way?<br /><br />continuing..... <o:p></o:p></span></p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060"><span style="font-size:85%;">Morrigan</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></form><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;">I asked:<br /><br /><b>8. Where in the Quran does it say you must obtain her(The captive's) consent?</b><br /><br />Muhammad's answer:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;- ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #36)</span><br /><br /><br />Nowhere in this text it is mentioned that you have to obtain the permission of the woman to have sex with her. If I missed anything, please point out to me WHERE IN THIS VERSE does it say that. (Stop wasting my time, BOY!)<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">Allah (swt) has commanded to do Good to your Right Hand Possessions. Having intercourse with the Female Captive without her consent is RAPE which is Evil in the Sight of Islam.</span><br /><br />So show me WHERE does it say (In the Quran) that having intercourse with the female captive WITHOUT HER CONSENT is rape.<br /><br />I am still waiting. You either find these very words written there or return to your insignificance. You lost the debate badly. Learn how to lose with dignity. <o:p></o:p></span></p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060"><span style="font-size:85%;">Morrigan</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></form><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>Wait..it gets better! LOL!!</b><br />I asked:<br /><br /><b>9. show me a verse of the Quran where it CLEARLY states RAPE IS PROHIBITTED.</b><br /><br />Muhammad's reply:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), obeys Allah. <b>But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds)</b>. ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #80)</span><br /><br />As you can see, it says precisely the OPPOSITE. This verse states clearly (for all to see) that you are TOLD TO OBEY THE MESSENGER (Not Allah) <b>BUT</b> If anyone does not obey, and turns to EVIL DEEDS, they will be IGNORED (A blind eye shall be turned to them)..meaning...they can do all their evil deeds as much as they want, because Allah has not sent anyone to WATCH OTHER THEIR EVIL DEEDS.<br /><br />Muhammad Omer has played right into my hands. He provided a verse which is the opposite of what he has claimed, and that has totally demoralized Islam as a religion. (I will save this verse and use it later) </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><br /><span style="color:red;">Regarding Point 11</span><br /><br />LOL! Muhammad wishes me to address the little funny story he wrote..heheheh<br /><br />I would address ONLY IF IT WAS A HISTORICAL FACT, but it was not. This story cannot be proven, therefore cannot and will not be addressed. It's pure bullshit.<br /><br />I refer to this:<br /><br /><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,132,0)">"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.</span><br /><br />What a load of bullshit!! <o:p></o:p></span></p><form><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060"><span style="font-size:85%;">Morrigan</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></form><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;">Questions Muhammad did NOT yet reply (He keeps avoiding them.)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_bigsmile.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image010.gif"><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>1. Should your mother, sisters, gran and aunties be GRATEFUL to the merciful Americans since they are well fed, clothed and have a bed to sleep on?<br /><br />2. Have your mother, sisters, gran and aunties got any right to complain about being RAPED daily?</b><br /><br />These are based on the story I wrote above. Read it again and REPLY. Your replies will attest to what you said previously.<br /><br /></span><span style="font-size:85%;"><b>7. define Morality as per ISLAM.<br /><br />8. Where in the Quran does it say you must obtain her(The captive's) consent?<br /><br />9. show me a verse of the Quran where it CLEARLY states RAPE IS PROHIBITTED.<br /><br />10. What is wrong with a wife having sexual intercourse with any man while she already has a husband?<br /><br />11.why can't a woman marry 4 men?Give me a LOGICAL/VALID/SCIENTIFIC reason for your g-d's disagreement with it. (Or Muhammad, who wrote the Quran himself).<br /><br />12. Which noble muslim girl would love to have sex with a male who has killed her parents , husband and her brothers? (You can ask any Muslim female to reply to this)<br /><br />13. Do you speak Arabic?</b><br /><br />Answer my questions Omer, without BULLSHIT. I don't want your idiotic explanations/justifications, I want SIMPLE REPLIES.<br />If you have a brain, now it's the time to use it. </span><v:imagedata href="http://img4.orkut.com/images/small/725/167725.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image043.jpg"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=12479475867500679616"><span style="font-size:85%;">Sharjeel (شرجيل)</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;">I have deleted one post of yours which was totally out of the Topic and please stick to the topic. This is about Slavegirls(as topic given by YOU) so stick to the topic, dont jump to other topics. Dont start preaching Torah and all that, just to write something in your posts. Please be with the topic, if you want to make a conclusion, just make it and people can read the posts and decide for themselves instead of going in circles.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060"><span style="font-size:85%;">Morrigan</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;">You deleted my post? Who gave you permission for that? You are NOT participating in this discussion. You are being BIASED and pathetic in interfering. LEAVE US TWO ALONE!<br /><br />How dare you delete something that important???<br /><br />I will post it again and IF YOU DELETE IT, everyone will see how ignorant you also are! </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:85%;"><v:imagedata href="http://www.orkut.com/img/i_wink.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image006.gif"></span><v:imagedata href="http://img2.orkut.com/images/small/1183047136/69474187.jpg" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg"><span style="font-size:85%;"><br /></span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=9710710269973225060"><span style="font-size:85%;">Morrigan</span></a><span style="font-size:85%;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><v:imagedata href="http://img1.orkut.com/img/b.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif"><o:p></o:p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:85%;">IN THE TORAH - WHICH IS THE FIRST MONOTHEISTIC RELIGIOUS BOOK, FROM THE SET: TORAH/BIBLE/QURAN, the FIRST commandment that G-d gives to humans (ADAM and EVE) is:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLE</span><br /><br />Now, I would like to debate on this because you muslims are saying that G-d is AGAINST pre-marital sex, however NOWHERE in the Torah you will see G-d telling Adam to marry Eve. Papers and registry offices did not exist in those days either.<br /><br />Sharjeel here deleted the post because he is afraid of the truth. He reckons that everything before Quran is WRONG and only QURAN is right.. so I am going to show him how miserably wrong he is.. (Although I would prefer a ONE TO ONE debate)..only he cannot handle it.</span></b></p><br /></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></v:imagedata></o:lock></v:path></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:stroke>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-31051536455806806122010-04-17T14:39:00.000-07:002010-04-17T14:40:02.122-07:00Orkut debate - Morrigan x Danish<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgic7nCH9gX065lRC5O5oSZEkM1sDI8ugfXqCsAd8RZGneKBKmHK_ryBCLrL5hfqWY2kD21SF91TcfX_w0QRrbYmtKMoxyvDCOz06oYX6ZQxsZW0HAenvgFYXZWwn_LvOu7WyC_cLziCQvL/s1600-h/Debate+morrigan+danish.bmp"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgic7nCH9gX065lRC5O5oSZEkM1sDI8ugfXqCsAd8RZGneKBKmHK_ryBCLrL5hfqWY2kD21SF91TcfX_w0QRrbYmtKMoxyvDCOz06oYX6ZQxsZW0HAenvgFYXZWwn_LvOu7WyC_cLziCQvL/s320/Debate+morrigan+danish.bmp" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5201787430575832818" border="0" /></a><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Please see my other blogs:</span><br /><br /><span style="font-size:130%;"><a style="font-weight: bold;" href="http://ayalah.blogspot.com/">http://ayalah.blogspot.com</a><br /><br /><a style="font-weight: bold;" href="http://morrigandunn.blogspot.com/">http://morrigandunn.blogspot.com</a><br /><br /><a style="font-weight: bold;" href="http://elelyl.blogspot.com/">http://elelyl.blogspot.com</a></span><br /><br /><br /><br />In Orkut we had several debates with Muslims and others, and now I will post a few for your perusal.<br /><br />Enjoy it ;)<br /><br />Morrigan<br /><br />------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">DEBATE BETWEEN MORRIGAN (Pagan) AND DANISH (Muslim)</span><br /><br /><h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style=""> </span><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> </span></h3> <p class="MsoNormal">Danish,<br /><br />You claimed that Islam is a peaceful and practical religion, but I am here to prove you wrong.<br /><br />So, first of all I ask you to describe here what you find PEACEFUL and PRACTICAL about Islam. And then, I want you to describe WHY Islam is a RELIGION.<br /><br />I claim that Islam is a VIOLENT and UNPRACTICAL CULT. Why do I say cult? Because religion comes from the word: RELIGARE. (Latin for Re-bind). The act of re-bind one consciousness with the DIVINE forces.<br /><br />I claim Islam does not teach you how to rebind with these divine forces, and is therefore a cult, invented by a man who wanted to control people, and make WOMEN submit to MEN's will.<br /><br />+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<br /><br />You are now required to back up your claims before I demolish them.<br /><br />Remember the rules:<br /><br /><b>1. NO personal attacks.<br /><br />2. NO deletion of posts.<br /><br />3. DEBATE instead of COPY and paste. (Copy and paste can be used for reference ONLY).</b> </p> <div style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186<o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt;">...<br /><br /><br />you want me to make the descriptions ??? Puhleez<br /><br />you start off. I'll just reply. Shuck another 'complain clarify' thread<br /><br />how boring.</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <p class="MsoNormal">Danish,<br /><br />Can you READ? I hope so. So read my post again.<br />I want you to BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS.<br />So, show me here SOMETHING (Anything) that can prove without a doubt that your claims are remotely valid. </p> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <p class="MsoNormal">Morrigan,<br /><br />dont bore me yaar. After all your hype all you have to say is ask my opinion on something.<br /><br />islam is peaceful cause it gives me a lot of peace<br />it is practical cause i find all my answers in it<br /><br /><br />now you tell me...... How old are you? </p> <div style="border-style: solid none; border-color: windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 0.75pt medium; padding: 1pt 0in;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b>Morrigan,<br /><br />dont bore me yaar. After all your hype all you have to say is ask my opinion on something.</b><br /><br />I asked you your opinion above. Stop stalling the debate. Just READ what I post and REPLY. I have no time to waste on people who troll. You accepted my challenge, did you not? So, ABIDE BY IT. Stop running.<br /><br /><b>islam is peaceful cause it gives me a lot of peace<br />it is practical cause i find all my answers in it</b><br /><br />Is this ALL you got to support your case? I am quite disappointed as I thought you had at least some knowledge of what you were talking about. I see that you don't.<br /><br />Ok, let's make this easier for you. Let's debate on ISLAMIC LAWS, shall we?<br />You had a lot to say in that topic, so let's see if you will be as "clever and chatty" here with me, when you have to obtain evidence to support such absurd claims.<br /><br /><b>now you tell me...... How old are you?</b><br /><br />My age is not relevant. Answer the questions.</p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=43245114&tid=2597216616404425418" target="_blank">http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=43245114&tid=2597216616404425418</a><br /><br />Here is the topic on Islamic laws that you posted.<br />It seems to me that you are DEFENDING Islamic laws.<br />May I ask what laws are these? Are you referring to Shariah? </p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt;">Choppin of hands and floggin for adultery is based on quran<br />other rules on ijma (consultation)<br /><br />together they make up shariah.<br /><br /><br />you know, yopu really talk a lot. Too much sound no substance.<br /><br /><br /><br />lemme take this ahead. Why do you think islam is not a way of life thats good. Do you see any scientific flaws in the quran? Anything at all which is illogical in the quran?<br /><br />would you just keepp scraping or is their anything substancial you have to say. Dont bore us, we've had enough of you.<br /><br /><br />and, i wanna know your age and religion. I dont wanna waste my time on a kid<br /><!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br /><!--[endif]--></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">And on one more thin.... Dont bring me hadeeths cause if i say fake/weak hadeeth you'll make a fuss<br /><br />stick to the quran. I know about the quran only.<br /><br />i hope, instead of wasting more time, you would now ask somethin </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <p class="MsoNormal">Oh its a she....???<br /><br />oohhh..... Ok? Such an agressive girl....my my....i am in for somethin :) </p> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Ohh he has decided to return! Good! <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" spt="75" preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"> </v:formulas> <v:path extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" connecttype="rect"> <o:lock ext="edit" aspectratio="t"> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1026" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>Choppin of hands and floggin for adultery is based on quran<br />other rules on ijma (consultation)<br /><br />together they make up shariah.</b><br /><br />Ok. I know the Quranic punishments. I want to know if you meant what you said in that topic. So I will ask you again: Are you DEFENDING / Justifying them or not?<br /><br /><b>you know, yopu really talk a lot. Too much sound no substance.</b><br /><br />And you seem to be afraid of a pure straight debate, and keep stalling the process by making ridiculous comments, such as asking my age or religion.<br />Stick to the TOPIC. Questions and answers about ISLAM. Stop being personal or I will ask the moderators to warn you. This is not what we agreed.<br /><br /><b>lemme take this ahead. Why do you think islam is not a way of life thats good. </b><br /><br />* It undermines women<br />* It is unfair<br />* It is discriminative<br />* It is oppressive<br />* It interferes in people's PERSONAL lives<br />* It is fake<br />* It is contradictory/ambiguous<br />* It breaches every single human rights policy<br />* It is immoral<br />* It encourages the development of SIN into people's hearts<br /><br /><b>Do you see any scientific flaws in the quran? Anything at all which is illogical in the quran?</b><br /><br />Yes, plenty of things. Would you like me to list them? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>would you just keepp scraping or is their anything substancial you have to say. Dont bore us, we've had enough of you.</b><br /><br />WE, who? Who had enough of me? You? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1027" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1027" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br />Anyway, please stop deviating the topic. DEBATE.<br /><br /><b>and, i wanna know your age and religion. I dont wanna waste my time on a kid</b><br /><br />I am older than you and I have no religion. This is all you need to know.<br />My personal details do not concern you. We are debating on an issue, not on my person.<br /><br /><b>And on one more thin.... Dont bring me hadeeths cause if i say fake/weak hadeeth you'll make a fuss</b><br /><br />Do you believe in the Hadiths? If so, which ones? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1028" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1028" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b><br />stick to the quran. I know about the quran only.</b><br /><br />Ok, so you know Quran and NOT Hadiths, right? This means you don't know Islam. So what is the point in debating with someone who lies?<br /><br />Ps. I am a WOMAN. Remember that.<br /><br />I am going offline for today. I will return tomorrow to continue. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span><br /></h3> <p class="MsoNormal">Most of the members put together, including me, would not know half as much (about religions and world cultures) as Morrigon alone does.<br /><br />Thats a relief. ok so i am deleting posts by other members. let this be a one on one<br /><br />bring it on honey</p> <div style="border-style: solid none; border-color: windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 0.75pt medium; padding: 1pt 0in;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">lemme take this ahead. Why do you think islam is not a way of life thats good.<br /><br />* It undermines women<br />* It is unfair<br />* It is discriminative<br />* It is oppressive<br />* It interferes in people's PERSONAL lives<br />* It is fake<br />* It is contradictory/ambiguous<br />* It breaches every single human rights policy<br />* It is immoral<br />* It encourages the development of SIN into people's hearts<br /><br />Do you see any scientific flaws in the quran? Anything at all which is illogical in the quran?<br /><br />Yes, plenty of things. Would you like me to list them?<br /><br />arey why are you asking me again and again. The only posts you have made till now reflect your claim that you know somethin. Start it off already.<br /><br /><br />if you think islam is oppressive, start with How it is oppressive, bring me verses. is this the first time you are debating?<br /><br />Sceintific flaws.... do you need my permission to list them, bring it on.<br /><br />Start it off already. i'll be back soon.<br /><br />and please....this time.... start with a topic<br /><br />start with you claim that Islam encourages the development of SIN into people's hearts<br /><br />what made you say that?</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">comeon baby, i cant wait to change you beliefs about islam.<br /><br />if you are what these people say you are, you'll start loving islam by the time we are through. hope you are free all this weekend cause i am freeing myself for you </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">DANISH:<br /><br /><b>arey why are you asking me again and again. </b><br /><br />Because you have not replied again and again.<br /><br /><b>The only posts you have made till now reflect your claim that you know somethin. Start it off already.</b><br /><br />No. I gave YOU a CHANCE to start DEFENDING your claims, but since you have been UNABLE to do so, and used your personal opinion as defense so far, I can confidently say that you are not even qualified to debate with me. I have seen younger boys who at least gave me a bit of a decent debate. (If you don't believe me I will show you in my blog, as I saved our Orkut debate over there.)<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1029" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1029" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>if you think islam is oppressive, start with How it is oppressive, bring me verses. is this the first time you are debating?</b><br /><br />No it is not my first time, but It seems it is YOUR first time debating with someone more knowledgeable than yourself, hence the childish comments.<br /><br /><b>Sceintific flaws.... do you need my permission to list them, bring it on.</b><br /><br /><b><span style="color:blue;">Quranic unscientific claims (Which are false)</span></b><span style="color:blue;"><br /><br />*Mountains provide stability to earth<br />*Moon has light of its own.<br />*The claim that Quran talks about expanding universe.<br />*The claim that Quran mentions the big bang theory.<br />* The claim of any and every scientific miracle in the Quran<br />* The claim that Cumin is the cure for all diseases<br />* The claim that Bees EAT fruits<br />* The claim that Muhammad was a prophet<br />* The claim that sperm comes from the "viscera and ribs"</span><br /><br />In fact, I am only listing a few. Even demolishing ONE of them proves that Quran is not a book of G-d and was written by a stupid man.<br /><br /><b>start with you claim that Islam encourages the development of SIN into people's hearts</b><br /><br />List of sins:<br /><br />* 3.1 Lust (Latin, luxuria)<br />* 3.2 Gluttony (Latin, gula)<br />* 3.3 Greed (Latin, avaritia)<br />* 3.4 Sloth (Latin, acedia)<br />* 3.5 Wrath (Latin, ira)<br />* 3.6 Envy (Latin, invidia)<br />* 3.7 Pride (Latin, superbia) </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt;">In Pakistan blasphemy directed against either the tenets of the Qur'an or the Prophet Mohammed is punishable by either life imprisonment or death. Apostasy, the rejection of one's old religion, is also criminalized in a number of countries, notably Afghanistan with Abdul Rahman being the first to face the death penalty for converting to Christianity. it is shameful or not according to Quran???<br /><br />the punishment for apostacy as per the Quran<br /><br />3:86 How shall Allah Guide those who reject faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust<br /></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br />3:90 But those who reject faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray<br /><br /><br />9:66 Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.<br /><br />So there is no punishment for apostacy in this world. Allah will punish these people as he wants. Muslims arent asked to punish them<br /><br />Same for blasphemy<br /><br />13:32 mocked were (many) apostles before thee: but I granted respite to the unbelievers, and finally I punished them: Then how (terrible) was my requital!</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">List of sins:<br /><br />* 3.1 Lust (Latin, luxuria)<br />* 3.2 Gluttony (Latin, gula)<br />* 3.3 Greed (Latin, avaritia)<br />* 3.4 Sloth (Latin, acedia)<br />* 3.5 Wrath (Latin, ira)<br />* 3.6 Envy (Latin, invidia)<br />* 3.7 Pride (Latin, superbia)<br /><br />again a list<br /><br />arey give me verses etc. what kinda lister are you?<br /><br /></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">I will show you how Islam encourages EACH of these sins.<br /><br /><b><span style="color:red;">Jealousy (Envy) & Lust</span></b><br /><br />The Quran's main subject is SEX and PUNISHMENTS. Islam is a cult that preaches polygamy. Where a MAN is allowed to have sexual relationships with more than one woman, while a woman is only allowed to have sexual relationships with her husband.<br /><br />First of all, this is DISCRIMINATORY, and a breach of human rights.<br />Secondly, this encourages LUST (for men), and wrath and envy for WOMEN.<br /><br />It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out human behaviour, since it is absolutely NORMAL and NATURAL that if a man who has a partner and decides to sleep with another woman, it will cause tremendous ANGER and JEALOUSY to his partner. And also to the other partner he is sleeping with. Not only that, but it will cause fights at home, disharmony and possible marriage break up.<br /><br />This proves Islam has disgraced the sanctity of marriage, by allowing MEN to sexually indulge themselves in their LUST.<br /><br />It is an IMMORAL act. For a man who has a wife, and decides to sleep (Marry even) another, as he is committing first of all, ADULTERY, then POLYGAMY.<br />Also this action is a deliberate act to HURT his partner.<br /><br />It seems to me that Muslim MEN do not understand that women get hurt by this behaviour, but they insist in doing so and claiming RELIGIOUS IMMUNITY.<br />And it seems to me that the Muslim women are extremely STUPID to allow their men to do so, or even not to fight. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Quranic unscientific claims (Which are false)<br /><br />*Mountains provide stability to earth<br /><br />We were deabting that last in the Quran is not the word of God thread<br /><br />*Moon has light of its own.<br /><br />Far from the truth. The Quran amazingly makes a difference between the light of the sun and that of the moon.<br /><br />25:61 Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a moon giving light<br /><br />71:16 "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?<br /><br />*The claim that Quran talks about expanding universe.<br /><br />51:47 AND IT IS We who have built the universe [30] with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it<br /><br />*The claim that Quran mentions the big bang theory.<br /><br />21:30 ARE, THEN, they who are bent on denying the truth not aware that the heavens and the earth were [once] one single entity, which We then parted asunder? – [38] and [that] We made out of water every living thing? Will they not, then, [begin to] believe?<br /><br />* The claim that Cumin is the cure for all diseases<br /><br />The what??<br /><br />* The claim that Bees EAT fruits<br /><br />need to check this up<br /><br />* The claim that Muhammad was a prophet<br /><br />hahahaha. you realyl are funny. <b>Start by disproving this, it would be entertaining</b><br /><br />* The claim that sperm comes from the "viscera and ribs"<br /><br />need to check this up</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br />I suggest you do not play stupid with me, as your defeat may be worse this way.<br />Earlier on you CLAIMED that if someone proved FLAWS and MISTAKES in the Quran/Islam, you would leave it. Obviously you have LIED. But I will show it to you anyway, because I want to make something clear here:<br /><br />When you are following a religion that is FALSE, and someone tells you that it is false, and proves it to you, you no longer have an excuse to follow it. However, if you still decide to follow it, you will be exactly like the dog that returns to his own vomit.<br /><br />You see, the dog KNOWS it is his vomit, and yet, he goes back and eats it. This is precisely how I see Muslims who have been told the truth, but decide to remain Muslims. All dogs that return to their vomit.<br /><br />I thought this debate was between ME and YOU, but I see other people replying here, so you may decide if you wish to take on ALL of us, or ME alone. I let you have this simple choice, because I know you shall fail, and while I cannot guarantee other people to be MERCIFUL to you, I can guarantee I shall be.<br /><br />The SINS that Islam encourages into people's hearts are:<br /><br />* WRATH<br />* ENVY<br />* PRIDE<br />* GREED<br />* LUST<br /><br />Sloth and gluttony are the only outsiders. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1030" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1030" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />Muslims are constantly WRATHFUL, and ENVIOUS of other people.<br />They are PROUD of being dogs that return to their vomit. Proud of belonging to a fake cult. Misled to the max.<br />They are GREEDY for LAND, MEN and WOMEN<br />They are LUSTFUL for WOMEN and MEN.<br /><br />** I shall continue this later as I am going to work now**<br /><br />I will try to reply from there if I am not too busy. </p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />Islam is a cult that preaches polygamy.<br /><br /><br />Islam is a religion that restricts polygamy and encourages monogamy. A christian or hindu can marry as many women as they want but Islam restricts this number to 4. this has also been discussed deeply here.<br /><br />Muslims are encouraged to have one wife.<br /><br /><br />4:3 If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.<br /><br /><br />24:32 Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />...<br /><br /><br />First of all, this is DISCRIMINATORY, and a breach of human rights.<br />Secondly, this encourages LUST (for men), and wrath and envy for WOMEN.<br /><br /><br /><br />Till about 150 years ago, it was a norm world over where everyone except muslims married 9 or 10 wives. Even now in India, Hindus are more polygamous than muslims<br /><br /><br />...<br /><br /><br /><br />It seems to me that Muslim MEN do not understand that women get hurt by this behaviour, but they insist in doing so and claiming RELIGIOUS IMMUNITY.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I cant recall, but there is a verse in the Quran that says that if you cannot do justice between your wives then marry only one.<br /><br />Also, according to some scholars, permission from the first wife is required to marry the second</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />I thought this debate was between ME and YOU, but I see other people replying here, so you may decide if you wish to take on ALL of us, or ME alone<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />you, what are you doing doing anyway. i'd rather take all of them cause you are anyway negligible.<br /><br />would you stop giving your theory and start showing me flaws. even its raining does a better job at debating.<br /><br />you are just showing off your past and that it. All wind no rain.<br /><br />seriously, either start off with showing me defective verses or get lost. others are doing a better job</p> </div> <h3><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div color="-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext" style="border-style: none none solid; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />The SINS that Islam encourages into people's hearts are:<br /><br />* WRATH<br />* ENVY<br />* PRIDE<br />* GREED<br />* LUST<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />another list<br /><br /><br />* WRATH - how?<br />* ENVY - how?<br />* PRIDE - how?<br />* GREED - how?<br />* LUST - how?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />honestly doll, you bring one more list and i would turn thread into nothing but comedy. stop boring me. after all those claims people have made about you i was looking for something besides your list.<br /><br /><br />we are on 40th post already and i've only had 2 meaningful posts from you.</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">DANISH:<br /><br /><b>Islam is a religion that restricts polygamy and encourages monogamy. </b><br /><br />This is a LIE, and you know it. There is no point in trying Taqiyya on me, my friend.<br /><br />Even your MUSLIM BROTHERS agree with me:<br /><a href="http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=19201491&tid=2547322717943388587&kw=If+ye+fear+that+ye+shall+not+be+able+to+deal" target="_blank">http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=19201491&tid=2547322717943388587&kw=If+ye+fear+that+ye+shall+not+be+able+to+deal</a><br /><br />Of course that I could easily debunk the whole sura 4:3...<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">4:3 If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the<b> orphans</b>, Marry women of your choice, <b>Two or three or four</b>;...</span><br /><br />If you fear you cannot deal justly with the ORPHANS????? Then you may marry WOMEN? Unless I am missing something my dear, why is this verse mentioning ORPHANS?? And as everyone can see, it explicitly states marry TWO, THREE or FOUR!<br /><br />This is the epitome of immorality!<br /><br />There is no need to paste the remaining part of the surah because in Surah Al-Nisa 129 it says:<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">You are<b> never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire</b> but turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air)</span><br /><br />So my friend, your Quran is a CONTADICTORY book. One minute it tells you that you can marry 2,3 or 4, and the NEXT it tells you the COMPLETE OPPOSITE, that you can NEVER be fair and Just between women, EVEN IF IT'S YOUR ARDENT DESIRE.<br /><br />So Islam is a bunch of lies as you can see. The book is highly AMBIGUOUS and a divine book should be CLEAR as a crystal and not ambiguous.<br /><br /><b>Muslims are encouraged to have one wife.</b><br /><br />They should not be ENCOURAGED. They should be FORBIDDEN to have more than one wife. Any CULT/RELIGION that allows men to fuck around, is IMMORAL and should be ridiculed.<br /><br />If men can have more women, then WOMEN can also have more men in their bed, whether you like it or not, whether Islam allows it or not. Islam is not a religion. It's a CULT. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br /><b>Till about 150 years ago, it was a norm world over where everyone except muslims married 9 or 10 wives. Even now in India, Hindus are more polygamous than muslims</b><br /><br />Please PROVE it. Show me evidence and timeline in HISTORY. Unfortunately for you I acnnot take your OPINIONS as facts. Provide evidence for your claims, or they shall be disregarded, jsut like this one above.<br /><br /><b>I cant recall, but there is a verse in the Quran that says that if you cannot do justice between your wives then marry only one.</b><br /><br />Yes, you posted it above. And I posted the Sura Al-Nisa which CONTRADICTS the Sura 4:3. Now what will you do? Blame your Allah for lying, misguiding or confusing you?<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1031" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1031" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>Also, according to some scholars, permission from the first wife is required to marry the second</b><br /><br />LOL!! And what kind of woman would give permission to her beloved to marry another? Only an idiot, or a woman who is abused, oppressed and lack self confidence!<br /><br />The whole issue is worse than it sounds as it shows evidently that Allah (Your g-d) knows NOTHING about human behaviour or human feelings, although he seems to have many of them, such as PRIDE, WRATH, JEALOUSY, etc...<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1032" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1032" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->That is quite interesting..<br /><br />Anyway, even if you CLAIM that permission from the first wife must be granted, things do not happen this way, besides there is NO Quranic evidence to prove this claim. If you claim the Quran tells you that, PROVE IT. Show me the Surah that says: PERMISSION from the FIRST wife is necessary. SHOW ME.<br /><br /><b>you, what are you doing doing anyway. i'd rather take all of them cause you are anyway negligible.</b><br /><br />Is this why you FAILED to be coherent and reply to me logically? hahah!!!<br /><br />Danish, everyone can see you are losing.. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br /><b><br />another list<br /><br /><br />* WRATH - how?<br />* ENVY - how?<br />* PRIDE - how?<br />* GREED - how?<br />* LUST - how?</b><br /><br />I explained above. Go back and READ IT. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br />Two things:<br /><br />1. You said if we can prove ANY falacy in the Quran, you will leave Islam.<br />Well, I pointed out loads already. So have other people here. Now we are waiting for you to LEAVE ISLAM as you said. (Unless you are a liar..)<br /><br /><br />2. I am still waiting for you to clarify if you DEFEND or CONDEMN the SHARIAH law. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />This is a LIE, and you know it. There is no point in trying Taqiyya on me, my friend<br /><br />Ofcourse its not, and you know it. There is no point in trying Taqiyya on me, my friend<br /><br />...<br /><br /><br /><br />4:2 Hence, render unto the orphans their possessions, and do not substitute bad things [of your own] for the good things [that belong to them], and do not consume their possessions together with your own: [2] this, verily, is a great crime.<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />4:3 And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans, then marry from among [other] women such as are lawful to you [3] - [even] two, or three, or four: but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then [only] one - or [from among] those whom you rightfully possess. [4] This will make it more likely that you will not deviate from the right course.<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />4:4 And give unto women their marriage portions in the spirit of a gift; [5] but if they, of their own accord, give up unto you aught thereof, then enjoy it with pleasure and good cheer.<br /><br /><br /><br />that should be selfexplanatory</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br /><br />You are to be fair to your wives in treatment. Each gets the same amount as domestic spend, each gets to spend the same amount of time with you.<br /><br />The prophet was very particular about this. But he had more love for some of his wives about which he was very concerned since the Quran says you have to be fair to them. Thats when the verse was revealed.<br /><br />You must be fair to them with your resources, but if you heart is more inclined towards some, then it is not a sin<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />128. If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.<br /><br />129. Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self- restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.<br /><br />130. But if they disagree (and must part), Allah will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty: for Allah is He that careth for all and is Wise.</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <h3>Danish - More lies from the Quran for you</h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">The LIES about having no compulsion in religion.<br /><br />The Quran Al Baqarah 2:256<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">Let there be <b>no compulsion in religion</b>: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. </span><br /><br />You read it, right? Let there be NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION. Meaning: People should be able to follow WHATEVER they want.<br /><br />But then ... we see this DISGRACE:<br /><br /><b><span style="color:blue;">Sura At-touba 9: 29</span></b><span style="color:blue;"><br /><br />Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued</span><br /><br />So, I have again PROVEN that the Quran is CONTRADICTORY, and lies to people.<br /><br />If there is to be NO COMPULSION in religion, why is this sick Surah there?<br />Why is it asked from believers to FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH????<br /><br />Answer me, Danish boy! </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />They should not be ENCOURAGED. They should be FORBIDDEN to have more than one wife. Any CULT/RELIGION that allows men to fuck around, is IMMORAL and should be ridiculed<br /><br /><br />Well thats the only religion that enourages monogamy, so you can throw the remaining in a rubbish can.<br /><br />It cannot be forbidden for reasons detailed in the polygamy thread. reasons like war etc which cause a disproportionate gender ratio</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">the rest is repitition and your usual blabbering on the same thing.<br />anything else? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />compulsion in religion<br /><br /><br />are you done with the polygamy thing? should we move on?</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br />Why are you scared to reply to me?<br />I said VERSES can be pasted as REFERENCE ONLY, and you are required to DEBATE.<br />Answer me: <span style="color:red;">DO YOU CONDEMN OR DEFEND SHARIAH?</span><br /><br />Secondly I asked you to explain Sura 4:3, in regards to the word ORPHANS. Why does it mention ORPHANS there if the surah has to do with MARRYING WOMEN?<br />THINK. Use your brain if you have one. I won't accept any copy paste shit unless you explain WHY you have pasted it and what you are trying to say.<br />I made that clear before, so don't waste my time!<br /><br /><span style="color:red;">4:3 And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably <b>towards orphans</b>, then marry from among [other] <b>women</b> such as are lawful to you</span><br /><br /><b>that should be selfexplanatory</b><br /><br />It's not. So EXPLAIN what the word orphans are doing there.<br /><br /><b>You are to be fair to your wives in treatment. Each gets the same amount as domestic spend, each gets to spend the same amount of time with you</b><br /><br />Go back to Sura Al-Nisaa 129 that I already pasted before, so I will paste again for youto explain:<br /><br /><span style="color:blue;">Ye are<b> never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire</b> but turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful</span><br /><br />Do you understand boy?? You may CLAIM that you are to be fair to your wives in treatment, but Surah Al Nisaa 129 DEMOLISHES your claim, in fact the claim of Sura 4:3.<br /><br />If you disagree, you have to prove your point. My point is proven. Islam is a LIE, and you will have to leave Islam now as you promised me. I showed you the FALACIES.<br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1033" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1033" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />Let's see how much your word is worth.. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>The prophet was very particular about this. But he had more love for some of his wives about which he was very concerned since the Quran says you have to be fair to them. Thats when the verse was revealed.</b><br /><br />Bullshit. Personal opinion. Taqiyya.<br /><br /><br /><b>You must be fair to them with your resources, but if you heart is more inclined towards some, then it is not a sin</b><br /><br />It IS a sin. You are CHEATING. It is ADULTERY. Marriage is sacred. The whole idea of marriage is about LOVE. A woman and a man who love one another. The moment you bring a THIRD person into this relationship, it becomes immoral and it is ADULTERY.<br /><br />Adultery = The act of cheating on your partner.<br />Muhammad was an adulterer. He should have been flogged to death, as he committed this act over 20 times if not more.<br />He also had intercourse with prisoners of war (captives) and with his slaves (Including Mariah, who was NOT his wife).<br /><br />You don't have a leg to stand on now!<br /><br />Stop copying and pasting shit as I am not reading it. Use it only as REFERENCE to prove something. All you proved so far is your ignorance in Islam, your ignorance in Quran, your ignorance in Hadiths and your total lack of common sense.<br /><br /><b>Well thats the only religion that enourages monogamy, so you can throw the remaining in a rubbish can.</b><br /><br />Bullshit. Taqiyya. How many religions do you know? NONE of course. So your CLAIM is unfounded.. personal opinion.<br /><br /><b>It cannot be forbidden for reasons detailed in the polygamy thread. reasons like war etc which cause a disproportionate gender ratio</b><br /><br />Bullshit excreted from Zakir Naik's braindead cells.<br />Your excuses and justifications are irrational, therefore will not be taken into account.<br /><br /><b><br />are you done with the polygamy thing? should we move on?</b><br /><br />Whats' to be done about it? Polygamy is a SIN, and in the WEST is a CRIME.<br />It causes people to SIN, therefore it is EVIL. If your g-d allows that, he is EVIL.<br /><br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1034" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1034" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />Why are you scared to reply to me?<br />I said VERSES can be pasted as REFERENCE ONLY, and you are required to DEBATE.<br />Answer me: DO YOU CONDEMN OR DEFEND SHARIAH?<br /><br /><br />ofcourse i defend it. the law of God is pefect.<br /><br /><b>What are you tryign to achieve with this boy and 'you are defeated' attitude. you think shouting it again and again would prove something. Dont try this shit with me, i invented mindgames</b><br /><br /><br />Secondly I asked you to explain Sura 4:3, in regards to the word ORPHANS. Why does it mention ORPHANS there if the surah has to do with MARRYING WOMEN?<br /><br /><br /><b>A'ishah said, "A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this Ayah was revealed about his case;<br /><br /><br />Thank you for asking, i didnt know this either. Thought it was about taking care of your own kids that have been orphaned.<br /><br />but it isnt. This is about girls who have been orphaned. If you want to take them in your care and you fear you would not be able to deal with them justly, then marry them, one, two, three or four<o:p></o:p></b></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <h3>@ Danish</h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>ofcourse i defend it. the law of God is pefect</b><br /><br />I see.. so you BELIEVE Shariah is a law from G-d? Which G-d?<br />So you defend chopping limbs, stoning women and lashing people? Interesting... I am yet to find a more vicious, violent and disgraceful g-d than Allah, the pagan Moon G-d from the Pre-Islamic Arabs.<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1035" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1035" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />In fact I doubt that any loving parent would have wished such thing to his/her child, let alone a "most merciful, most loving" g-d.<br /><br />Ok, so you agree with me that YOUR g-d (Allah) is NOT merciful or loving then?<br /><br /><b>What are you tryign to achieve with this boy and 'you are defeated' attitude. you think shouting it again and again would prove something. Dont try this shit with me, i invented mindgames</b><br /><br />Well, if I can beat you in your own "mindgames" it means you are not that good at it my friend. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1036" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1036" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>A'ishah said, "A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this Ayah was revealed about his case</b><br /><br />Right.. so earlier you said you did NOT BELIEVE IN HADITHS, only QURAN. Now you are quoting a hadith without even giving me a reference and claiming it is the explanation of this verse. Right. I will accept your use of this hadith as the explanation for the surah IF you can give me the Hadith's reference.<br /><br /><b>Thank you for asking, i didnt know this either. Thought it was about taking care of your own kids that have been orphaned.</b><br /><br />You are welcome. So according to your own explanation using Hadiths, a man is ONLY allowed POLYGAMY if he is to marry "ORPHANS", and not other women. Right? Otherwise it still has no meaning. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />hadeeth on why the 'cant be fair to your wife' ayah was revealed<br /><br /><br />Imam Ahmad and the collectors of the Sunan recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah used to treat his wives equally and proclaim, "O Allah! This is my division in what I own, so do not blame me for what You own and I do not own (referring to his heart.) This was the wording that Abu Dawud collected, and its chain of narrators is Sahih.<br /><br /><br />seeya tomorrow now</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>but it isnt. This is about girls who have been orphaned. If you want to take them in your care and you fear you would not be able to deal with them justly, then marry them, one, two, three or four</b><br /><br />Ok, so as I said, a man is ONLY allowed to marry these girls IF they are orphans. Although it gives me the creep to think of an older man marrying CHILDREN who have been orphaned, just to care for them, when he is perfectly able to care for them without having to marry them or have sexual intercourse with them.<br /><br />This explanation you gave me, is actually WORSE than pure polygamy, for it is understood that the man who is marrying these orphaned girls, is doing so in order to take over THEIR MONEY, or the money they inheritted from their dead parents.<br />Otherwise, as I said, he doesn't need to marry them, he can ADOPT them. By adopting them he will NOT be able to use their money, so the orphans will keep their money safe.<br /><br />(Danish has proven that Islam encourages men to be GOLD DIGGERS and marry orphaned children in order to take their money into his own possession). Tsk tsk tsk... disgraceful!!<br /><br />Here you are my friend Danish... it's time to LEAVE ISLAM! <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1037" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1037" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>hey doll, trust me, you wont like it if i talk to you the way you are.<br />i know very well how to put a bitch in her cage but i aint very happy doin it.</b><br /><br />Danish you have broken the rule. You are now INSULTING my person. (You just called me a bitch for no reason whatsoever), so now we have the evidence that Muslims cannot debate, but INSULT when cornered!<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1038" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_smile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1038" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->LOL!! Priceless!<br /><br />Danish boy, don't flatter yourself. It would take more than you to even intimidate me, so keep your insults for your family, who may appreciate them more.<br /><br /><b>so keep you victorious attitude to yourself unless you want some of it back.</b><br /><br />Is my victory hurting you? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1039" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1039" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->Good! You said you would leave Islam if I proved falacies, and I have. Abide by your word. Or were you LYING?? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br /><b>You got some weird presumptions about yourself and i wouldnt mind breakin them apart. ok. I aint her to spoil my mood so chill and let me be chilled.</b><br /><br />My friend, you are free to do as you please. As I said, you can break everything apart if you have what it takes to do so. Remember, so far I am being extremely merciful towards you, but only because I want you to debate, and to think while you are at it.<br /><br />I believe that if I allow you to think logically about what I am writing, you will leave Islam. All you have to do is comprehend what I say.<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1040" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1040" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>keep your fucking attitude to yourself</b><br /><br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1041" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1041" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->Losing your cool already? You know that if you cannot control your temper you canot control anything? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1042" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1042" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->The word that you keep inside is your slave, the one that comes out is your master. Are you a slave of your own temper?<br /><br /><br /><b>Imam Ahmad and the collectors of the Sunan recorded that <u>`A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah used to treat his wives equally</u> and proclaim, "O Allah! This is my division in what I own, so do not blame me for what You own and I do not own (referring to his heart.) This was the wording that Abu Dawud collected, and its chain of narrators is Sahih.</b><br /><br />Danish, do you believe in this Hadith? If so, what will you do if I paste another Hadith from Aisha, stating explicitly that Muhammad did not treat his wives equally, and that he was under the influence of black magic?<br /><br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1043" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1043" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />For the last time: <span style="color:red;">DO YOU BELIEVE IN HADITHS OR NOT??</span><br /><br />Stop wasting my time, saying you don't and then quoting them. You either DO or you DON'T. Choose!!! </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">gimme some time. some idiot has claimed a chargeback on all thosands of rupees transacted through my website which is really really frusturating me (as you can see from some earlier replies)<br /><br />be back tomorrow.<br /><br /><br />is anyone living in chennai? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Ok. I will wait until tomorrow. Good luck recovering your Rupees. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Well Danish... you are still here debating, so address my points.<br />Stop giving us lame excuses about you being conned off a few Rupees.<br /><br />Men who are real men, debate with honor. I am waiting. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Men who are real men, debate with honor<br /><br />men who are real men, ................. oh leave it, you will start another women complain for this <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1044" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image004.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_funny.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image004.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1044" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><br /><br />you are so aggressive, i dont even enjoy debating with you. guys here are a lot better. GL, Athiest, Doctor Satyendra and others.... its nice to discuss things with them.<br /><br />but anyway, i'll take it forward cause your questions are nice. tonight maybe. right now i am in a bad mood </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />So you defend chopping limbs, stoning women and lashing people?<br /><br /><br /><b>Stoning women? thats a judaic law. you should be knowing this. the other two are islamic and you can see our discussion in the thread Islamic Laws</b><br /><br /><br /><br />In fact I doubt that any loving parent would have wished such thing to his/her child, let alone a "most merciful, most loving" g-d.<br /><br /><br /><b>A just king will do justice. He is the most loving and the most strict in punishment.<br /><br />5:98 Know ye that Allah is strict in punishment and that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful</b></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <p class="MsoNormal">..<br /><br />so earlier you said you did NOT BELIEVE IN HADITHS, only QURAN. Now you are quoting a hadith without even giving me a reference and claiming it is the explanation of this verse. Right. I will accept your use of this hadith as the explanation for the surah IF you can give me the Hadith's reference.<br /><br /><br /><b>i dont know much about hadeeth and how to know which ones are right and which are wrong. so i dont use them. i found this one in a tafsir book which explains why this verse was revealed<br /><br /><a href="http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12418" target="_blank">http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12418</a></b><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />You are welcome. So according to your own explanation using Hadiths, a man is ONLY allowed POLYGAMY if he is to marry "ORPHANS", and not other women. Right<br /><br /><br /><b>nope, the use of orphans over there is because of this background. a muslims man cannot marry more than four.</b></p> <div style="border-style: solid none; border-color: windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 0.75pt medium; padding: 1pt 0in;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Otherwise, as I said, he doesn't need to marry them, he can ADOPT them. By adopting them he will NOT be able to use their money, so the orphans will keep their money safe.<br /><br /><br /><b>Adoption is not there in islam. You can pay for a girls residence and living, like in an orphanage, but you cant start living with her.</b><br /><br /><br /><br />(Danish has proven that Islam encourages men to be GOLD DIGGERS and marry orphaned children in order to take their money into his own possession). Tsk tsk tsk... disgraceful!!<br /><br />Here you are my friend Danish... it's time to LEAVE ISLAM!<br /><br /><br /><b>What kind of attitude is this? its no fun, its actually irritating talking to you.<o:p></o:p></b></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>Stoning women? thats a judaic law. you should be knowing this. the other two are islamic and you can see our discussion in the thread Islamic Laws</b><br /><br />I know it is Judaic, and I ABHOR it. I don't respect it and I criticize it. Do you also criticize it or you defend this inhuman and barbaric attack?<br /><br /><b>A just king will do justice. He is the most loving and the most strict in punishment.</b><br /><br />G-d is not a king. Neither are you. Neither are your mullahs. Justice does not mean BARBARITY. Strict punishment does not mean VIOLENT and BARBARIC.<br /><br />When you resort to barbarity, it CEASES to be justice. It may be strict, but it is UNJUST if this is the case. And a g-d MUST be just, must be loving.<br />Chopping hands, stoning and lashing people are INHUMAN. They are not even considered strict, but ABUSE of power.<br /><br /><b>5:98 Know ye that Allah is strict in punishment and that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful</b><br /><br />Written by a madman. Allah has not held the whips. Allah has not thrown the stones. Allah has not chopped those people's hands.<br /><br />You men do your EVIL in the name of ALLAH. He must be reserving a special place in his roasting oven for you lot! <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1045" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1045" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />I believe that if I allow you to think logically about what I am writing, you will leave Islam<br /><br /><br /><br /><b>do it with an attitude that makes talking fun and engaging. i aint here to win or loose, we are discussing your points and mine.<br /><br />and i dont need to tell you if and when i leave Islam and neither do you need to tell me if and when you convert to Islam, we both have brains to decide between the truth and falsehood.<br /><br />What we are doing here and all we can do, is try to show each other why we think what is true and what is false.</b></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />I know it is Judaic, and I ABHOR it. I don't respect it and I criticize it. Do you also criticize it or you defend this inhuman and barbaric attack?<br /><br /><b>Must i have an opinion. it has nothing to do with islam. why should i bother with someone else's religion</b><br /><br /><br /><br />G-d is not a king. Neither are you. Neither are your mullahs. Justice does not mean BARBARITY. Strict punishment does not mean VIOLENT and BARBARIC.<br /><br /><br /><b>God is a king as per Islam. Justice most certainly doesnt mean being barbaric, how you define that word however, can be debated. The punishments in hell might sound barbaric to you, but that is how Allah punishes who you rebel against him despite the blessing he filled their life with. </b><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />5:98 Know ye that Allah is strict in punishment and that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful<br /><br />Written by a madman. Allah has not held the whips. Allah has not thrown the stones. Allah has not chopped those people's hands.<br /><br /><br /><br /><b>Please be careful with your words. i would not debate with someone using madman to describe my prophet. To me, my prophet is as dear as my father, so when you talk about him, dont say things you would not want to say about my father. please</b><br /><br /><br />Going now, seeya later</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br /><b>i dont know much about hadeeth and how to know which ones are right and which are wrong. so i dont use them. i found this one in a tafsir book which explains why this verse was revealed<br /><br /><a href="http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12418" target="_blank">http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12418</a></b><br /><br />This is not what I asked you. I asked you if you BELIEVE in hadiths or not. If you don't, then it means you don't know shit about Islam.<br />If you do, then we can discuss Islam on the light of everything linked to it. Hadiths, Quran and Muhammad. Do you understand?<br /><br />As for Hadiths being right or not, you won't be able to tell UNLESS you know Islamic History, which you don't. All of them are AUTHENTIC documents, written before you and I were born, so it is NOT up to you to choose which ones are right or not. You will know when you learn HISTORY of ISLAM.<br /><br /><b>nope, the use of orphans over there is because of this background. a muslims man cannot marry more than four.</b><br /><br />Then the verse should NOT have mentioned orphans. The fact that it did, proves your comments WRONG. A man is ONLY allowed to marry orphans. END OF STORY. If you believe differently, show me a Surah that states so.<br /><br /><b>Adoption is not there in islam. You can pay for a girls residence and living, like in an orphanage, but you cant start living with her.</b><br /><br />Hang on.. I don't understand this. You said that ADOPTION is not there in Islam. You mean that it is FORBIDDEN to adopt a child? So.. is it ok to COMMIT PEDOPHILIA with this child and MARRY HER??<br /><br />What is this about man????<br /><br />Didn't Muhammad adopt Zayd his ex-slave?? So was Muhammad going against the Quran then? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1046" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1046" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->You just shot yourself on your foot. LOL!!!<br /><br />Unbelievable! Hear hear!! It's ok to rape a child and commit pedophilia by marrying the child, but not allowed to ADOPT her.<br /><br />What a sick cult is this? Enlighten me!!! </p> </div> <h3><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />Didn't Muhammad adopt Zayd his ex-slave?? So was Muhammad going against the Quran then?<br /><br />he adopted him before the prophethood. The quran ruled that adopted sons are not your sons.<br /><br /><br />33:4 Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way.<br /><br />..<br /><br />i dont rely too much on hadeeths unless someone is there to tell me which ones are authentic.<br /><br />...<br /><br />the rest of it was crap so i aint answering. and you better tone down girl...i wont continue this with the tone you are using. calm down, this aint a win-lose battle.</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />What a sick cult is this? Enlighten me<br /><br />your prejudice is an obstacle in this discussion</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>What kind of attitude is this? its no fun, its actually irritating talking to you.</b><br /><br />Why? Because I make you see your mistakes? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1047" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1047" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br />Danish my dear, you have shot yourself on the foot. You have just said that ISLAM does not recognize ADOPTION, which in my view is the MOST HONOURABLE thing to do for an orphan child. Instead, Islam enforces CHILD MARRIAGE which to me is the same as PEDOPHILIA.<br /><br />Are you now aware of how sick this looks to CIVILIZED people?<br /><br /><b>i dont need to tell you if and when i leave Islam and neither do you need to tell me if and when you convert to Islam, we both have brains to decide between the truth and falsehood.</b><br /><br />You made a claim. You said that if ANYONE proved any fallacy in the Quran or Islam you would LEAVE IT, and claim that there are 1 million g-ds. So far you have not done so. Why? Can't you recognize when you make a mistake? Can't you be man enough to say that you were wrong? Or to admit that we have shown you the fallacies in your cult?<br /><br /><b>What we are doing here and all we can do, is try to show each other why we think what is true and what is false.</b><br /><br />That's cool. So when will you admit that what I showed you is TRUE and what you claimed was FALSE? I am waiting...<br /><br /><b>Must i have an opinion. it has nothing to do with islam. why should i bother with someone else's religion</b><br /><br />Danish, we are talking about ISLAMIC practices and SHARIAH law now.<br />The fact that it all started in Judaic times, does not justify its current occurrence in ISLAMIC countries. Understand?<br />You will not see ONE JEW doing this. In fact, you can look throughout history and you won't find any such case from 500 BCE onwards to be fair and honest.<br /><br />Muslims however still live in the STONE AGE. Such punishments are not just or valid. They are made out of ANGER and WRATH.<br />And when you resort to these things you lose your humanity. People like that are no better than BEASTS.<br /><br />This is why your opinion would help me understand your character. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br />As I said. Islam is not a religion. It's a cult. It's not prejudice, it's the truth. I have absolutely no prejudice towards any cult or religion that preaches LOVE and MERCY. Islam preaches the OPPOSITE. It is a cult because it has NOTHING divine in it. And I already explained the difference between CULTS and RELIGIONS. But I can explain again if you wish.<br /><br /><b>God is a king as per Islam. Justice most certainly doesnt mean being barbaric, how you define that word however, can be debated. The punishments in hell might sound barbaric to you, but that is how Allah punishes who you rebel against him despite the blessing he filled their life with.</b><br /><br />G-d is not a king. Not in Islam, nor anywhere else. It's just G-d. A force. Not a human, not an entity, not a deity. Anything that borders the barbaric is NOT justice at all. You need to learn about Justice in order to acknowledge that. There is NO HELL. Hell does not exist. Neither does PARADISE in heaven. You may disagree, but if so, you may also PROVE that they exist. And the proof must come from REAL THINGS, not books and scriptures.<br /><br />People can write about anything, but I will ONLY accept evidence.<br /><br />Besides, Allah did not fill anyone's lives with blessings. We were born as they were because MOTHER NATURE made us this way. There is no G-d. At least not the one you believe in. And you cannot argue with me on this because you cannot prove it. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>Please be careful with your words. i would not debate with someone using madman to describe my prophet. </b><br /><br />Your prophet means nothing to me. To me he was worse than a madman. If you cannot tolerate criticism towards a HISTORICAL figure, then you should not debate with me. Furthermore, it is you who must be careful with your words. You called me a BITCH. Remember???<br /><br /><b>To me, my prophet is as dear as my father, so when you talk about him, dont say things you would not want to say about my father. please</b><br /><br />You undermined your father now. Shame on you! Your prophet may be dear to you, but he was EVIL to my people, evil to women, evil to dogs, and I have absolutely no respect at all for him. Deal with it. As long as I am not insulting YOU or YOUR FATHER, you cannot tell me to watch my words. Is that clear?<br /><br />I am sorry if my words hurt you. But I cannot pretend to be a hypocrite just to please your ego and save your feelings from being hurt. Muhammad insulted my people. He MURDERED them at cold blood in an act of genocide. Whether you wish to accept it or not, is not relevant. This is recorded in HISTORY, and also in your Quran and the Hadiths.<br /><br />You could NEVER in a million years deny his acts, for if you do I will be more than happy to prove you wrong yet again. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Debate abandoned due to provacative language. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br /><b>he adopted him before the prophethood. The quran ruled that adopted sons are not your sons.</b><br /><br />Let me get this straight... so you say Muhammad adopted Zayd BEFORE prophethood, right? So what does that mean? Before Muhammad became a prophet he was a GOOD person, and after prophethood he became EVIL? Well, I could agree with that actually because I have seen what Islam has done to GOOD PEOPLE before they got stuck in this dead end cult. Osama Bin Laden, believe it or not, is one of them.<br /><br />Before he met his so-called-spiritual leader, he was a GOOD person.<br /><br />So, can you give me a LOGICAL reason as to why it would be forbidden for anyone to ADOPT a needy child and give him/her love, a home, food and education?<br />Why would you prefer to sleep with a minor, and produce children with her, instead of looking after her and her future???<br /><br />Would that also apply to BOYS? So women could not adopt little boys but they could sexually abuse them and marry them??<br /><br />Please tell me the logic behind it. I am dying to hear it. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1048" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1048" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>33:4 Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way.</b><br /><br />What does this gibberish mean?<br />Of course your wives are not your mothers! Do you really need ALLAH to tell you that? Of course your adopted sons are not your BLOOD related sons, but still this verse proves NOTHING. It doesn't even say it is forbidden to adopt.<br />The word "BUT", however is interesting, for if Allah tells you the truth and shows the right way, then you would know that DESPITE the children not being yours, you can take them as yours and care for them.<br /><br />Has Allah then given you green card to rape minors instead of adopting them?<br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1049" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image005.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_surprise.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image005.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1049" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br /><b>Debate abandoned due to provacative language.</b><br /><br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1050" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1050" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->I see.. take the easy way out instead, huh?<br />I thought you had balls. How can I debate with an over sensitive teenager? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1051" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1051" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />Comparing Muhammad to your father was the worst thing you have said so far today. If I were you I would remove such words, for you have undermined your father's love for you, and his character.<br /><br />Besides, you don't even know Muhammad! And never will. So please quit this extreme show of desperation for a historical figure that you haven't even met. My heart is not melting for you. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />Comparing Muhammad to your father<br /><br /><br /><br />a thousand times greater and loved and dear to me than my father. the prophet is most dear to me after God. I hope you would understand my reluctance to debate under the condition that you call a historical figure whatever you want.<br /><br />i wont like it and since i have no compulsion to talk to you, i would avoid a conversation that upsets me. it was nice debating with you and i learned a lot<br /><br />also, when you learn about someone from a source that hates him, you would have nothing but hatred for him. try giving the other side a chance too. every coin has two sides. i am listening to your side, you should listen to mine. if you wish<br /><br /><br />you also said "My People", what does that mean?</p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>a thousand times greater and loved and dear to me than my father. </b><br /><br />Who? Muhammad? Why is that? Has he given birth to you? Has he fed you, cleaned you, or given you education? Please enlighten me, Danish... what has this dead man ever done for you? I would be interested to know where your love comes from.<br /><br />It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you HAVE TO love this unknown man in order to be a Muslim, would it? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1052" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1052" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>the prophet is most dear to me after God. I hope you would understand my reluctance to debate under the condition that you call a historical figure whatever you want.</b><br /><br />Well, I really wish I could understand but I can't. I don't see how any SANE person, with all his marbles intact, would say that an unknown man and an unknown g-d are dearer to them than their own FAMILY who spend their time money and love in bringing them up.<br />Your family should ALWAYS come FIRST in your life. Not in second place to a dead man and an unknown / fake g-d. And I am being serious here.<br /><br />You got to get your priorities right my boy! You lack common sense. Your words are just rhetorics which I am tired of listening! I have seen many people claim the same rubbish and yet, they don't even know Muhammad or g-d. How amusing this is...<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1053" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1053" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br />Another proof that Islam brainwashes people and removes their sanity and common sense.<br /><br /><b>i wont like it and since i have no compulsion to talk to you, i would avoid a conversation that upsets me. it was nice debating with you and i learned a lot</b><br /><br />Good. I am happy you did! Now, leave Islam as you promised, since I have already proven it is a fake cult and the Quran's many fallacies. These were the conditions, right? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>also, when you learn about someone from a source that hates him, you would have nothing but hatred for him. try giving the other side a chance too. every coin has two sides. i am listening to your side, you should listen to mine. if you wish</b><br /><br />Very well. I will listen to your side then. Please tell me who you think Muhammad was, and provide evidence to back up your claims, as I have done.<br />And please don't use only Quran, use everything in Islam. Hadiths, Quran, Islamic law, islamic history (principally), and last but not least, Muslims' behaviour when they follow the words of this man.<br /><br />I am listening....<br /><br /><b>you also said "My People", what does that mean?</b><br /><br />Pagans and Jews. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />keep your prejudices to yourself, i aint interested at all in your opinion about me.<br />can we continue without you insulting the prophet or is this debate over?<br /><br />..<br /><br /><br />God gave me my parents. They will die... God wont. On the day of judgement, all these relationships wont count. The only relationship that would count would be that of my creator and me.<br /><br /><br />My mother loves Allah more than me. For a mother, thats the best she can do.<br /><br /><br />i love the prophet cause i have read the other side of the coin which you havent.</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />Please tell me who you think Muhammad was, and provide evidence to back up your claims, as I have done.<br /><br /><br /><br />You havent given any evidences... anyway.<br /><br /><br />Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) was an orpan. A boy who lost both his parents and guardian in early childhood. He grew up under the care of his grand father.<br /><br />Through out his life, he was a very introvert and shy man and spent a lot of his time isolated in caves or with friends of a similar nature.<br /><br />When he grew up he assisted a widow, Khadija, in her trade and later they both married. Muhammads lifestyle continued to be one of isolation and introvertness.<br /><br />16 years later, while he was mediatating in the cave, he was called upon by God angels and given the charge of prophethood.<br /><br /><br />..<br /><br /><br />through his early life as a prophet, Muhammad went through a lot of problems. At one place people threw stones at him till his shoes were full of blood. he was boycotted. his business came to an end and he became very very poor.<br /><br />most people called him a liar and mocked him, a few of them believed in him.<br /><br />for 13 years Muhammad kept trying to convinve the meccans. kept telling them he is not lying and is asking for nothing in return.<br /><br />then he went to medina where islam grew stronger. i wont bore you anymore with history .<br /><br /><br /><br />...<br /><br /><br /><br />as a person what i love most about the prophet was his introvertness.<br /><br />its amusing to read hadeeth where the narrator mentions, the prophet smiled till his premolars were visible, or that the prophet smiled....<br /><br />no one ever reported that the prophet laughed out loud<br /><br />when a person is so shy that he is decent even in his smiling...that makes him very lovable to me.<br /><br />..<br /><br />Also what i like is the fact that he never claimed to be God. He never claimed to be the greatest prophet and he died very poor. the only thing he left behind was his saddle, nothin else.<br /><br />despite being a king, all he had was a saddle.<br /><br />...<br /><br /><br />this is Muhammad, the man you didnt know</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />all these stories that degrade him, are part of the parcel i think. When some people love him, others hate him. Jews hated christ who is loved by more than half the world.<br /><br /><br />They call him a paedophile. Aisha was engaged to be married to Jaffar when she was six. it was a custom for girls to get married at that age. her father wanted to marry her to the prophet, and he agreed. the marriage was consumated when Aisha turned 9 or 13 and that is the lowest age of marriage for muslims now.<br /><br /><br />paedophiles dont marry old widows and divorcees. All other wives of the prophet were women above 30 and 40. They were all widows or divorcees, all except aisha.<br /><br />you dont call such a man paedophile. Paedophile are obsessed only with young girls. paedophiles develop this tendency when they are young.<br /><br /><br />the prophet married ayesha when he was 53 or 56. she was the only virgin he married. you think that is 'obsession with young girls'<br /><br /><br />thats a ridiculous claim and it hurts us. but people would never stop mocking or loving Allah's messengers. They have all been mocked, but in the end, they prevailed and today, a mojority loves and respects them.<br /><br /><br />36:30 Ah! Alas for (My) Servants! There comes not an apostle to them but they mock him!</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>keep your prejudices to yourself, i aint interested at all in your opinion about me.</b><br /><br />You need to know my opinions the same way as I listen to yours. This is what a dialogue consists of.<br /><br /><b>can we continue without you insulting the prophet or is this debate over?</b><br /><br />I am not insulting him. I am describing him.<br /><br /><b>God gave me my parents. They will die... God wont. On the day of judgement, all these relationships wont count. The only relationship that would count would be that of my creator and me.</b><br /><br />Danish first of all, g-d did NOT give you your parents. You were born as part of a natural process between a man and a woman's relationship in the bedroom. Yes they will die, and so will you, but g-d won't die because there is no g-d. There never was. And there is no such thing as day of judgment, for this day will never ever come. There will be no relationship between YOU and g-d because when you die you will become energy, the same matter that you were before coming to life.<br /><br />If you think g-d is a human or a deity with some sort of conscience you will be very disappointed.. but that won't matter as you will be dead. Without a brain. And if you have no brain, you have no memory or capability to think. You become ETHERIAL.<br /><br />ETHER has no flesh, no brain, thus no mind. No memory, no feeling.... nothing. Absolutely nothing.<br /><br /><b>My mother loves Allah more than me. For a mother, thats the best she can do.</b><br /><br />Does she know that Allah was the pagan's moon g-d in pre-islamic Arabia or she thinks this Allah is a real g-d too? Anyway.... let her be with her faith. Let her find consolation in it if she wants. Some people could die or go insane without faith.. they are not strong enough. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />lady, it is your assumption that there is no God. I know God. I know he exists. There is absolutely no doubt of that in my mind.<br /><br />Lets not talk about God or Muhammad....lets bring it on to the Quran.<br /><br /><br />I know God exists, you need to tell me why the Quran isnt God's word.<br /><br /><br />find me ONE mistake in the Quran and all my beliefs fall with it. The Quran has to be perfect to be divine.<br /><br />so no faith or feelings etc here. Pure delicious science.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />4:82 Will they not, then, try to understand this Qur’an? Had it issued from any but God, they would surely have found in it many an inner contradiction!</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>i love the prophet cause i have read the other side of the coin which you havent.</b><br /><br />Ok. So you are still claiming to love someone you don't know, because you READ something which you claim I don't know. Correct? Ok.. where is this "other side of the coin" you claimed to have read? Which book? Quran? Hadith? What? Indulge me....<br /><br /><b>You havent given any evidences... anyway.</b><br /><br />Yes I have. But I can always give a lot more if you wish. However, EVEN if I had not given any, you should give me evidence of your claims, as it is you who wishes me to believe in Islam, right? Didn't you say that you would make me believe in Islam? Well then... convince me. Yallah!<br /><br /><b>Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) was an orpan. A boy who lost both his parents and guardian in early childhood. He grew up under the care of his grand father.</b><br /><br />Like millions in this world.. so?<br /><br /><b>Through out his life, he was a very introvert and shy man and spent a lot of his time isolated in caves or with friends of a similar nature.</b><br /><br />Who told you that? Who was there recording Muhammad's life story while he was a poor little orphan boy? Was he that special at that time that someone would write his life story? Was he a king? A Caesar? An emperor? LOL!<br /><br />Oh please! Danish, if you will make such ridiculous claims, you will have to prove them.<br />Ok?<br /><br /><b>When he grew up he assisted a widow, Khadija, in her trade and later they both married. Muhammads lifestyle continued to be one of isolation and introvertness.</b><br /><br />Muhammad was EMPLOYED by Khadija at the request of his uncle. Khadija was the RICHEST WOMAN in Mecca in case you don't know. She was Jewish woman but not a practicing Jewess, since she had several types of beliefs. Her family was Jewish (Mother's side) and Christian by her father's side. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />Does she know that Allah was the pagan's moon g-d in pre-islamic Arabia<br /><br /><br />she needent know that. she knows Allah is arabic for God.<br />Muhammad's (pbuh) father was called Abdullah....which means slave of God.<br /><br />So dont bring that old logic here</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />i never said i would convert you to Islam, i said you'll stop hating it, inshallah.<br /><br />..<br /><br />Through out his life, he was a very introvert and shy man and spent a lot of his time isolated in caves or with friends of a similar nature.<br /><br />Who told you that? Who was there recording Muhammad's life story while he was a poor little orphan boy? Was he that special at that time that someone would write his life story? Was he a king? A Caesar? An emperor? LOL!<br /><br /><br /><b>His wife, his friends, people who knew him....he did exist before the prophethood you know.</b><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />When he grew up he assisted a widow, Khadija, in her trade and later they both married. Muhammads lifestyle continued to be one of isolation and introvertness.<br /><br /><br />Muhammad was EMPLOYED by Khadija at the request of his uncle. Khadija was the RICHEST WOMAN in Mecca in case you don't know. She was Jewish woman but not a practicing Jewess, since she had several types of beliefs. Her family was Jewish (Mother's side) and Christian by her father's side.<br /><br /><br /><br /><b>She wasnt the richest, not even close to it. Her wealth didnt last more than a few years after the prophethood. </b></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />where is the other side of the coin you seem to have read<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.al-sunnah.com/nektar/" target="_blank">http://www.al-sunnah.com/nektar/</a><br /><br /><b>This is one of the best biographies. Every statement is backed by sources. It also won several awards</b></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">He worked for Khadija, travelling on her behalf to several destinations, trading in spices, wood, silks and the sorts.... Khadija fell for Muhammad (She was 40 and he was 25). Well, there is nothing wrong with that, after all what older woman doesn't like a bit of fresh meat? He was young and fresh, willing to marry her, so why not?<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1054" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1054" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br />So they married, and he became entitled to her FORTUNE when she died. Of course, as it was expected. He inherited her money. This is precisely WHEN he started making up an army to defeat his enemies and when he started marrying all sorts of young girls, not to mention have fun with them. FACT. Not insult, not denigration.<br /><br /><b>16 years later, while he was mediatating in the cave, he was called upon by God angels and given the charge of prophethood.</b><br /><br />Obviously I don't believe in this, but that's not relevant. What I want to know is: Why was Muhammad MEDITATING? The only religions that taught MEDITATION in those days were JUDAISM (Kabbalah), and HINDUISM (Yoga).<br />What was he meditating about? What was his RELIGIOUS background? DO you even know?<br /><br /><b>through his early life as a prophet, Muhammad went through a lot of problems. At one place people threw stones at him till his shoes were full of blood. he was boycotted. his business came to an end and he became very very poor.</b><br /><br />These are all lies. Muhammad was attacked because he preached that HIS religion was superior, and he called for the MURDER of all the people who did not believe in him or followed him. He DENIGRATED other people's beliefs and started to OPPRESS WOMEN. This is why he was attacked.<br /><br />Now Muslims throw stones at women instead... very sad. Barbaric.<br /><br />Muhammad was NEVER poor. He did not lose business, he simply left the TRADING business to focus on PREACHING to others. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />So they married, and he became entitled to her FORTUNE when she died. Of course, as it was expected. He inherited her money. This is precisely WHEN he started making up an army to defeat his enemies<br /><br /><br /><b>prove this. i say that all their fortune ended within years of the revelation. Khadija died very poor and if i remember correctly, she died from a diease she got because of surviving on leaves.<br /><br />this happened during the boycott<br /></b><br /><br /><br />your posts are again very offensive. i would stop this discussion if you dont heed</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />These are all lies. Muhammad was attacked because he preached that HIS religion was superior, and he called for the MURDER of all the people who did not believe in him or followed him. He DENIGRATED other people's beliefs and started to OPPRESS WOMEN. This is why he was attacked.<br /><br />Muhammad was NEVER poor. He did not lose business, he simply left the TRADING business to focus on PREACHING to others.<br /><br /><br /><br /><b>so you know nothin. what is the source of your claims</b><br /><br />..<br /><br />anyway, lets focus on the quran, i dont think i would be able to tolerate you if we talk about the prophet<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><b><br />please bring your list of mistakes in the Quran.</b></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>most people called him a liar and mocked him, a few of them believed in him.</b><br /><br />Have you ever wondered why?<br />Has Muhammad ever prophecised anything? Any miracles performed?<br />Did he raise the dead or raise from the dead?<br />Did he turn water into wine or blood?<br /><br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1055" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1055" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>for 13 years Muhammad kept trying to convinve the meccans. kept telling them he is not lying and is asking for nothing in return.</b><br /><br />Why didn't Allah do this for him? Why did he have to CONVINCE people by waging wars and murdering them instead?<br />Did Moses have to do that? Did Muhammad sent plagues to the Meccans like Moses did to the Egyptians? Did Allah open the rivers for Muhammad as he had done for Moses? Well, that G-d was YHVH, not Allah, so I guess he is more powerful than Allah, no doubt.<br /><br /><b>then he went to medina where islam grew stronger. i wont bore you anymore with history .</b><br /><br />It's cool. I like it. But I already know all this. You can talk about it if you like, though.<br /><br /><b><br />as a person what i love most about the prophet was his introvertness.</b><br /><br />But Danish, you don't know if he was like that. These are stories from people who were not even there.. written some 200 years AFTER him. What could you possibly know about him?<br /><br />Does a person who calls for the genocide of a whole tribe sounds like an INTROVERT to you??? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1056" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image005.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_surprise.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image005.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1056" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>its amusing to read hadeeth where the narrator mentions, the prophet smiled till his premolars were visible, or that the prophet smiled</b><br /><br />Why amusing? I see people smile beautifully everyday. Hitler also smiled.. and Osama, and Vlad the Impaler. What's your point with this?<br />You speak of him as if he was a g-d or a saint!! Snap out of it! </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">...<br /><br />i want to discuss the prophet with you, but then you get so offensive. its better we shift our focus to the Quran, i am very sensitive to bad things said about someone i love so dearly</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>Also what i like is the fact that he never claimed to be God. He never claimed to be the greatest prophet and he died very poor. the only thing he left behind was his saddle, nothin else.<br />despite being a king, all he had was a saddle.</b><br /><br />Danish:<br /><br /><b><span style="color:red;">An-nisaa 4:80</span></b><span style="color:red;"><br /><br />He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah; but if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).</span><br /><br />Here Muhammad is compared to ALLAH. Blasphemy or what??? Heresy!<br />If you obey the messenger you are said to be obeying Allah. Muhammad claimed to be G-D!!!! He ALWAYS claimed to be the LAST prophet, which came to FIX the errors of previous prophets, thus elevating himself to the position of GREATEST. He died poisoned by a Jewish woman. And if he was POOR, it was because he had lost everything through his antics. Allah ABANDONED him.<br /><br /><b>this is Muhammad, the man you didnt know</b><br /><br />Did you know him? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1057" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_bigsmile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1057" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>all these stories that degrade him, are part of the parcel i think. When some people love him, others hate him. Jews hated christ who is loved by more than half the world.</b><br /><br />Jews don't hate Christ. Who told you such thing?<br /><br /><b>They call him a paedophile. Aisha was engaged to be married to Jaffar when she was six. it was a custom for girls to get married at that age. </b><br /><br />No my friend. It wasn't. Girls in PRE-Islamic Arabia married at 13, 14, and even 30 or 40. So did MEN. Boys and girls of 14, 16... were married. NOT old men of 57 to little girls of 9!!<br />That is pedophilia whether you like it or not!!<br /><br /><b>her father wanted to marry her to the prophet, and he agreed. the marriage was consumated when Aisha turned 9 or 13 and that is the lowest age of marriage for muslims now.</b><br /><br />LIES. Her father Abu Bakr did NOT want to marry her to Muhammad. The Hadiths are CLEAR on that one! <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1058" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1058" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />ok, lets not discuss the prophet anymore. i don think i can do that with you. but i would love to do that with someone like Partha who is a lot more decent.</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Let me show you:<br /><br /><b><span style="color:blue;">Narrated 'Ursa</span></b><span style="color:blue;"><br /><br />The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said <b>"But I am your brother." </b>The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." (Sahih Bukhari 7.18)</span><br /><br />See? He said BUT I am your brother! This clearly shows a sign of DISGUST that Muhammad could ask for such a thing from his BEST FRIEND!! Can you see the low morals he had? Can you??????<br /><br /><b>paedophiles dont marry old widows and divorcees. All other wives of the prophet were women above 30 and 40. They were all widows or divorcees, all except aisha.</b><br /><br />Most pedophiles are MARRIED MEN who have children too. Don't tell me what pedophiles do because I see it all the time! His other wives were NOT OLD widows or divorcees, they were ALL BEAUTIFUL women he chose. None of them was OLD, SICK or LAME.<br />HE picked the prettiest ones and also slept with his SLAVES.<br /><br /><b>you dont call such a man paedophile. Paedophile are obsessed only with young girls. paedophiles develop this tendency when they are young.</b><br /><br />Danish, you are not defending him very well, are you? Pedophiles don't develop this tendency when they are young, but when they are OLD!!! Learn something for a change!!<br /><br /><b>the prophet married ayesha when he was 53 or 56. she was the only virgin he married. you think that is 'obsession with young girls'</b><br /><br />I am not talking about VIRGINITY. I am talking about AGE.<br />He was a pedophile because he also married SAFIYAH, who was 17 years old and he was 60!!!<br /><br />Would you let your 17 year old marry a 60 year old man?? What would you call this today? PEDOPHILIA. Accept it. It's a fact. </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">^ and the verses giving permission for war were given at Medina. Not mecca<br /><br /><br />this incident where he bled so much that his shoes were full of blood, happened at Taid, a few days after the death of Khadija (may Allah be pleased with her)</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt;">...<br /><br /><br />ok, we will discuss the prophet... but please. dont be offensive. ok<br /><br />say ok and we will continue</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">^not 6, 9 or 13 </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br /><br />morrigan , do yo agree.....no offensive words ( fresh flesh etc )</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>lady, it is your assumption that there is no God. I know God. I know he exists. There is absolutely no doubt of that in my mind.</b><br /><br />Ok. As you wish. When you see him, say hello to him and tell him to send another prophet down to sort the mess that the last one did. Ok?<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1059" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--> <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1059" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>I know God exists, you need to tell me why the Quran isnt God's word.</b><br /><br />Ok. I think I already exposed its fallacies, well at least some of them. It would take me ages to expose all of it, but we can go by parts if you want.<br /><br />I have nothing against you believing in G-d, but if you do, at least do NOT attribute such books to him. You make your g-d look very bad indeed. That book was written by MUHAMMAD, in which he COPIED 80% from Judaism and Christianity, then changed it, repackaged it and said it was QURAN for a new religion called ISLAM. SUBMISSION.<br /><br />Only this submission was to HIM and not G-d. (Obey the MESSENGER and you will be obeying ALLAH. Remember?)<br /><br /><b>find me ONE mistake in the Quran and all my beliefs fall with it. The Quran has to be perfect to be divine.</b><br /><br />Huh??? What do you think I have been SHOWING YOU all this time??? ALL MISTAKES! All corruptions! All proofs that Quran is NOT perfect, nor divine!!<br /><br />Believe in G-d if you want... but you don't need QURAN for that!<br /><br /><b><br />4:82 Will they not, then, try to understand this Qur’an? Had it issued from any but God, they would surely have found in it many an inner contradiction!</b><br /><br />These words were already proven false. I have found contradictions. HUNDREDS of them. Go back to the post about polygamy and justice to women.<br /><br />WELL??? what can you say about that?<br /><br />Danish, stop ignoring these things. ADMIT it instead. </p> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br />Ok. But where was I offensive? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">ok, tomorrow then.<br /><br />we will discuss contradictions in the quran first cause that is infallible for a muslim.<br /><br />if you can prove that, then everything falls anyway. if you cant, we will move on to discussing the prophet.<br /><br />should we start a "Debate btw Morrigan and Danish - Part 2"<br /><br /><br />bring the contradictions in the quran to start it </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />Danish is never gonna admit that the Koran is not from God<br /><br /><br />i obviously cannot refute clear evidence. Clear evidence is clear evidence</p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">...<br /><br /><br />also i am very keen to discuss your views about the prophet. If anyone thinks things like he married Kahdija for money and built an army from it....they would obvioulsy hate the prophet<br /><br /><br />but these are not true. let people decide whether we should discuss about the prophet (new topic) or about the contradictions (much discussed topic)<br /><br /><br />... </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;"><b>prove this. i say that all their fortune ended within years of the revelation. Khadija died very poor and if i remember correctly, she died from a diease she got because of surviving on leaves.</b><br /><br />Danish, according to your Islamic history, Khadijah died of HUNGER. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1060" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1060" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->Obviously this was not so, but this is what it says.<br /><br /><b>what is the source of your claims</b><br /><br />Quran, Hadiths, Islamic History, Islamic archaeology.<br /><br />Look Danish, I don't want to hurt you. I don't want you to be so over sensitive about this either. ok? You are a MAN, so please be one. Be strong and learn how to accept criticism. I am not telling you these things because I have a vendetta against Muhammad. I am just trying to teach you a few things about him and Islam.<br /><br />I regret that my words may be harsh and upset you, but I don't know how I could discuss with you without telling things as they are.<br /><br />It is upsetting for me to see you praising a man who committed all these crimes against women, children, boys and MY PEOPLE! It is very annoying to see Muslims blessing such genocidal character. It hurts me too you know?<br /><br />Think about it! The people in Khyber were JEWS. Men, women, children....<br />Muhammad waged wars against them because they did not accept him as a prophet. Couldn't he just LET THEM BE and move somewhere else???<br /><br />He was not even living there for g-d's sake!! Did he have to murder everyone and take Safiyah, the daughter of the CHIEF and coincidentally the prettiest one?<br /><br />Did he have to SHARE the rest of the surviving women amongst his barbarian men, who murdered all their families????<br /><br />Do you call such a man PROPHET?<br />Where are your morals? Where is ALLAH's morals when he allows such thing to happen in his name? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=15314979830090520186">Danish</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">..<br /><br />It is very annoying to see Muslims blessing such genocidal character. It hurts me too you know?<br /><br />Think about it! The people in Khyber were JEWS. Men, women, children....<br /><br /><br /><b>fine, so i aint using offensive words against the jews, you dont use them against the prophet. lets not use adjectives ok. simple as that. Clear precise educated discussion</b><br /><br /><br />and i am so looking forward to it <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1061" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_smile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1061" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--></p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <div style="border-style: none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color windowtext; border-width: medium medium 0.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 1pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in;">Danish:<br /><br /><b>ok, tomorrow then.<br />we will discuss contradictions in the quran first cause that is infallible for a muslim.</b><br /><br />Ok. As you wish.<br /><br /><b>if you can prove that, then everything falls anyway. if you cant, we will move on to discussing the prophet.</b><br /><br />Ok. So if I prove that, will you leave Islam?<br /><br /><b>should we start a "Debate btw Morrigan and Danish - Part 2"<br />bring the contradictions in the quran to start it </b><br /><br />Sure! Will do. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1062" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_smile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1062" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]--><br /><br /><b>also i am very keen to discuss your views about the prophet. If anyone thinks things like he married Kahdija for money and built an army from it....they would obvioulsy hate the prophet</b><br /><br />Not necessarily. They are just quoting History. How can anyone hate a dead man who cannot cause any more harm?<br /><br /><b>but these are not true. let people decide whether we should discuss about the prophet (new topic) or about the contradictions (much discussed topic)</b><br /><br />We decide. This is OUR debate. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1063" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_wink.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1063" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->You decide. ok? I let you pick your favourite.<br /><br />I will let you rest now. Let's go to another topic and chill out.<br /><br />--------------------------------------------<br /><br />Partha & others:<br /><br />I am NOT ignoring you. I just wanted to debate with DANISH as it is better for people to understand things on a one to one basis.<br />I had opened a topic to discuss these issues outside this debate, but you deleted it.<br />If you let the one Shiroo opened remain, then I will reply to you all over there ok? </p> </div> <h3><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=16804048570935426028">Morrigan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></h3> <b>fine, so i aint using offensive words against the jews, you dont use them against the prophet. lets not use adjectives ok. simple as that. Clear precise educated discussion<br />and i am so looking forward to it </b><br /><br /><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1064" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style="'width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" href="http://www.orkut.com/img/smiley/i_smile.gif"> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" shapes="_x0000_i1064" width="15" border="0" height="15" /><!--[endif]-->Too late.. Muhammad already insulted us by calling us pigs and monkeys. But you don't have to.<br /><br />Yes. I am looking forward to it too. What will it be? Prophet character or Qu'ran contradictions?<br />Up to you!<br /><br />Thanks for the debate!Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-86979634655190252752010-04-17T14:35:00.000-07:002010-04-20T04:02:36.747-07:00Conspiracy or Misunderstanding? The Anunnaki gods.<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/anunnaki.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/anunnaki.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><span style=";font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:100%;" ><span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 204, 0);"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />God said, "Let us make man in</span> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); font-weight: bold;font-size:180%;" >our</span><span style="font-weight: bold;"> <span style="color: rgb(51, 204, 0);">image, after</span> <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-size:180%;" >our</span> <span style="color: rgb(51, 204, 0);">likeness.</span></span><br /></span><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:85%;" >Genesis 1:26</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:georgia;" >How many times have we heard of "conspiracy theories"? As far as I understand, theories can only be made based on something concrete, some sort of study or investigation. That is not to say that all theories are valid, they are more like guess work, until proven accurate. However, the basis of all theories require facts.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:georgia;" >Conspiracy: By origin this word comes from the Latin: </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:georgia;" ><span style="font-weight: bold;">CON</span>- "with, together", </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:georgia;" ><span style="font-weight: bold;">SPIRARE</span> "to breathe".<br />By definition conspiracy means "</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:georgia;" >a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act".<br /><br />When we talk about <span style="font-weight: bold;">Conspiracy Theories</span>, we are referring to theories which were created to "harm" a particular political issue. Now, the question we should all be asking is: <span style="font-weight: bold;">WHY? </span>Why would people conspire to harm someone or some political / religious views for example? Sure there is evil in the whole of mankind, but why do we call these theories conspiracy, when we are simply unable to back up the "real theories" with facts?<br /><br />I give the example of Religions, which I have chosen as an issue because it is, indeed, at the very core of most human beings.<br /><br />When people talk about religions and conspiracy theories I feel a little uneasy. I have seen many conspiracy theories, which were just ridiculous, such as the Protocols of Zion, which has already been proven to be a fraud. But I have also seen other theories which, were the result of many years of studies and analysis of data available. However, many people also consider these investigations as conspiracy theories to damage one's faith. The issue is that people can either be happy or unhappy with their "religion", or the religion their parents have brought them up into.<br />I know by experience, that many people do question many points raised in their religions, and discuss amongst themselves. Discussion brings enlightenment.<br /><br />I believe that these days, with the rise of internet users, dialogues and discussions have been made possible to such a level that it is easier now, for all of us , to reach from one end to the other of our planet, with a click of a button. The result is that more people can get together and discuss things which are important to them. There is also the factor that some of us are simply unable to discuss certain religious issues with people of the same faith, simply because some do not like this "questioning".<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">Getting to the point:</span><br /><br />I have read many theories in different religions; some are considered to be conspiracy theories, while others are still being analysed in order to be labelled.<br /><br />I want to speak about one which is still being analysed. This is the theory that "we were made at god's image". Or shall I say: <span style="font-weight: bold;">"Gods"</span>?<br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(51, 204, 0); font-weight: bold;">Some Sumerian Clay tablets were found in 1850, about 250 miles from Baghdad, Iraq, by an Englishman Sir Austen Henry Layard, as he excavated the site of Nineveh, the capital of Assyria. This site is located near the present Iraqi town of Mosul. </span></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><br /><br />Those thousands of tablets are still being translated, but the ones who have already been, have caused uproar amongst religious scholars and surprise amongst historians and archaeologists. No wonder! They are in fact, quite explosive!<br /><br />I will get into more detail on them later. But if you would like to read one, check the title: <span style="font-weight: bold;">SUMERIAN TABLETS</span> in this blogg. I have copied the translation of Dr. Zacharia Sitchin, of the tablet he calls: <span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Attestation</span>.<br />It refers to a highly advanced race, called Anunnaki, who landed on Earth and made us at their image, thus reflecting the words of Genesis:</span><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><br /></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 153, 0);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:85%;" ><span style="font-weight: bold;">"Let us make man in </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); font-weight: bold;font-size:130%;" >our</span><span style="font-weight: bold;"> image, after <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);font-size:130%;" >our</span> likeness.</span></span><br /><span style=""><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">I have questioned this phrase for a long time now, and this has made me wonder if the writers of the Torah (The hebrew bible) had made a slight error in interpretation. After all, If God is ONE, and he was just about to make us, who was he talking to?</span><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">And if his colleagues were "angels", what would be the "image" that God would then choose? Do Angels share the same image as God? Does God have an image at all?</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Elohim</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"> is a plural word in Hebrew, which means, gods or deities. However, most Jewish people take this conotation to mean </span><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">ONE GOD</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">. It is a semitic word, which has originated from the ancient Canaanite </span><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">ilum</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">. The Sumerians called their deities as ilu (plural - iluhm), so the link in language is very obvious indeed, since the Sumerians were first.</span><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">But the interesting part is that the sumerian tablets actually tell us many of the same stories that we find in the Bibles, but with a different version. The version that in its original, tells us that the Anunnaki (Extra-terrestrial beings) are the <span style="font-weight: bold;">"iluhm"</span> and that they were the ones who created us at their image, by using their DNA and the DNA of an Apewoman.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">In my other topic, please check the translation of the Sumerian tablet, which deals with the making of Mankind.</span><br /><br /><br /><br /></span><span style=""><br /><br /><br /></span>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-40015775168297814472010-04-17T14:34:00.000-07:002010-04-17T14:35:18.893-07:00Archaeology and Religion<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/Godess.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/Godess.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><br />Since the beginning of time men have been searching for their origins.<br />Also our understanding of the origin and evolution of galaxies has developed dramatically thanks to the engineers working at the forefront of astronomical technology.<br /><br />Scientists and Archaeologists, amongst others, have played a major part in unearthing mysteries past, and now we are able to re-start looking into the scriptures in order to match facts and discard fantasy. Only through learning we will obtain our desired knowledge.<br /><br />By reading ancient scrolls, parchments and tablets, we managed to pinpoint the various locations where these stories happened and now perhaps we have a better chance to understand more about who we are and where we came from.<br /><br />We will also understand what is religion and what is the purpose of perpetuating certain teachings. What can Archaeology do for us, in order to clarify our doubts and our questions?<br /><br />Archaeological evidence can be found for most biblical stories.<br />Of course, this requires PAINSTAKING AND METICULOUS work, not to mention the stressfull days and the sleepless nights!<br /><br />But how is this accomplished? Simple. We read the bible at FACE VALUE!<br />Perhaps we would do good in paying heed to OUR FOREFATHERS just to see where it leads us.<br /><br />What is it that we want? Religion confirmation? Scientific knowledge? Spirituality?<br /><br />I started my research some years ago, with the objective to know if the stories of the bibles actually happened. I started by reading the scriptures at face value, without interpreting them. From the start until the end, scripture and archaeology had to go hand in hand, as archaeological proof was needed for everything. If a particular story lacked archaeological proof, then I had to investigate from another angle. I am aware that it is very hard to obtain proof for everything.<br /><br />So far so good. I will keep updating the news as and when I can.<br /><br />Enjoy the new discoveries!Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-74041604753763033142010-04-17T14:33:00.002-07:002010-04-17T14:34:25.125-07:00Sumerian tablets<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/Flood%20tablet.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/Flood%20tablet.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">These are extracts of the Sumerian tablets found under the ruins of King Ashurbanipal's palace in Nineveh.<br /><br /><br />Part I<br /><br />ATTESTATION<br /><br /></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">In the seventh year after the great calamity, in the second month, on the seventeeth day, I was summoned by my master, the Lord Enki, great g-d, benevolent fashioner of mankind omnipotent and merciful.<br /><br />I was among the remnants of Eridu who had escaped to the arid steppe just as the Evil Wind was nearing the city. And I wandered off into the wilderness to seek withered twigs for firewood. And I looked up and lo and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the south.<br /><br />There was a reddish brilliance about it and it made no sound. And as it reached the ground, four straight feet spread out from its belly and the brilliance disappeared.<br /><br />And I threw myself to the ground, and prostrated myself, for I knew that it was a divine vision.<br /><br />And I lifted my eyes, there were two divine emissaries standing near me. And they had the faces of men, and their garments were sparkling like burnished brass. And they called me by name and spoke to me saying:<br /><br />You are summoned by the great g-d the lord Enki. Fear not, for you are blessed. And we are to take you aloft, and carry you unto his retreat in the land of Magan, on the island amidst the River of Magan, where the sluices are.<br /><br />And as they spoke, the Whirlwind lifted itself as a fiery chariot and was gone.<br />And they took me by my hands, each one grasping me by one hand. And they lifted me and carried me swiftly between the Earth and the Heavens, as the eagle soars. And I could see the land and the waters, and the plains and the mountains.<br /><br />And they let me down on the island at the gateway pf the great g-d's abode. And the moment they let go of my hands, a brilliance as I had never seen before engulfed and overwhelmed me, and I collapse on the ground as though voided of the spirit of life.<br /><br /></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"> My life senses returned to me, as if awakened from the deepest sleep, by the sound of the calling of my name. I was in some kind of an enclosure. It was dark but there was also an aura. Then my name was called again, by the deepest of voices.<br />And although I could hear it, I could not tell whence the voice came, nor could I see whoever it was that spoke. And I said: Here I am.<br /><br />Then the voice said to me: Endubsar, offspring of Adapa, I have chosen you to be my scribe, that you write down my words on the tablets.<br />And all at once there appeared a glowing in one part of the enclosure. And I saw a place arranged as a scribal workplace: A scribe's table and a scribe's stool, and there were finely shaped stones upon the table. But I saw no clay tablets nor containers of wet clay.<br /><br />And there lay upon the table only one stylus, and it glistened in the glowing as no reed stylus ever did. And the voice spoke up again, saying:<br /><br />Endubsar, son of Eridu City, my faithful servant. I am your lord Enki. I have summoned you to write down my words, for I am much distraught by what has befallen mankind by the great calamity.<br /><br />It is my wish to record the true course of the events, to let g-ds and men alike know that my hands are clean. Not since the Great Deluge had such a calamity befallen the Earth and the g-ds and the Earthlings.<br /><br />But the Great Deluge was destined to happen, not so the great calamity. This one, seven years ago, need not have happened. It could have been prevented, and I, Enki, did all I could to prevent it; alas, I failed.<br /><br /></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">And was it fate or was it destiny? In the future shall it be judged, for at the enf of days, a Day of Judgement there shall be. On that day, the Earth shall quake and the rivers shall change course, and there shall be darkness at noon and a fire in the heavens in the night, the day of the returning celestial g-d will it be.<br /><br />And who shall survive and who would perish, who shall be rewarded and who will be punished, g-ds and men alike, on that day shall it be discovered; for what shall come to pass by what has passed shall be determined; and what was destined shall in a cycle be repeated, and what was fated and only by the heart's will occurring for good or ill shall for judgement come.<br /><br />The voice fell silent, then the great lord spoke up again, saying: It is for this reason that I will tell the true account of the Beginnings and of the Prior Times and of the Olden Times, for in the past the future lies hidden.<br /><br />For forty days and forty nights shall I speak and you will write; forty shall be the count of days and the nights of your task here, for forty is my sacred number among the g-ds. For forty days and for forty nights you shall neither eat nor drink; only this once of bread and water you shall partake, and it shall sustain you for the duration of your task.<br /><br /></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"> And the voice paused, and all at once there appeared a glowing in another part of the enclosure. And I saw a table and upon it a plate and a cup. And I rose up thereto, and there was bread on the plate and water in the cup.<br /><br />And the voice of the great lord Enki spoke up again, saying: Endubsar, eat the bread and drink the water, and be sustained for forty days and forty nights. And I did as directed. And thereafter the voice directed me to sit myself at the scribal table, and the glowing there intensified. I could neither see door nor aperture where I was, yet the glowing was as strong as the midday sun.<br /><br />And the voice said: Endubsar the scribe, what do you see?<br />And I looked and saw the glowing rayed upon the table and the stones and the stylus, and I said: I see stone tablets, and their hue is blue as pure as the sky.<br />And I see a stylus as I have never seen before, its stem unlike any reed and its tip shaped like an eagle's talon.<br /><br />And the voice said: These are tablets upon which you shall inscribe my words. By my wish they have been cut of the finest lapis lazuli; each with smooth faces provided. And the stylus you see is a g-d's handiwork, its handle made of electrum and its tip of divine crystal.<br /><br />It shall firmly fit in your hand and what you shall engrave with it shall be as easy as marking upon wet clay.<br /><br />In two columns you shall inscribe the front face, in two columns you shall inscribe the back of each stone tablet.<br />So not deviate from my words and utterances!<br /><br /></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">And there was a pausing, and I touched one of the stones, and the surface thereof felt like a smooth skin, soft to the touch. And I picked up the holy stylus, and it felt like a feather in my hand. And then the great g-d Enki began to speak, and I began to write down his words, exactly as he had spoken them.<br /><br />At times his voice was strong, at times almost a whisper. At times there was joy or pride in his voice, at times pain or agony. And as one tablet was inscribed on all its faces, I took another to continue.<br /><br />And when the final words were spoken, the great g-d paused and I could hear a great sigh. And he said: Endubsar my servant, for forty days and forty nights you have faithfully recorded my words. Your task here is completed.<br /><br />Now take hold of another tablet, and on it you shall write your own attestation, and at the end thereof, as a witness mark it with your seal, and take the tablet and put it together with the other tablets in the divine chest; for at the designated time chosen ones shall come hither and they shall find the chest and the tablets, and they shall learn all that I have dictated to you; and that true account of the Beginnings and the Prior Times and the Olden Times and the Great Calamity shall henceforth be known as The Words of the Lord Enki.<br /><br />And it shall be a Book of Witnessing of the past, and a Book of Foretelling the Future, for the future in the past lies and the first things shall also be the last things.<br /><br />And there was a pause, and I took the tablets, and put them one by one in their correct order in the chest. And the chest was made of acacia wood and it was inlaid with gold on the outside.<br /><br /></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">And the voice of my lord said: Now close the chest's cover and fasten its lock. And I did as directed.<br /><br />And there was another pause, and my lord Enki said: And as for you, Endubsar, with a great g-d you have spoken, and though you have not seen me, in my presence you have been. Therefore you are blessed, and my spokesman to the people you shall be.<br /><br />You shall admonish them to be righteous, for in that lies a good and long life. And you shall comfort them, for in seventy years the cities will be rebuilt and the crops shall sprout again.<br /><br />There will be peace but there will also be wars. New nations will become mighty, kingdoms shall rise and fall. The olden g-ds shall step aside and new g-ds shall decree the fates. But at the end of days destiny shall prevail, and of that future it is foretold in my words about the past.<br /><br />All of that, Endubsar, to the people you shall tell.<br />And there was a pause and a silence. And I, Endubsar, bowed to the ground and said: But how will I know what to say?<br /><br />And the voice of the lord Enki said: The signs will be in the heavens, and the words to utter shall come to you in dreams and in visions. And after you, there will be other chosen prophets. And in the end there will be a New Earth and a New Heaven, and for prophets there will be no more need.<br /><br />And then there was silence, and the auras were extinguished, and the spirit left me. And when I regained my senses, I was in the fields outside Eridu.<br /><br /><b>Seal of Endubsar, master scribe<br />(translated and published by Mr. Zacharia Sitchin)<br /></b></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Times New Roman,Times,serif;font-size:85%;" ><b>Sitchin is an eminent Oriental & Biblical scholar, who distinguised himself with his ability to translate ancient Sumerian and other ancient texts. He is a graduate of the University of London and worked as a journalist & editor in Israel for many years. He now lives & writes in New York. </b></span><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br /></span>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-87520148968913017252010-04-17T14:33:00.001-07:002010-04-17T14:33:38.547-07:00THE CASE AGAINST SUDAN<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/sudan1.jpg"><img style="FLOAT: left; MARGIN: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; CURSOR: pointer" alt="" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/sudan1.jpg" border="0" /></a><br />As early as 1993, the <b>"UN Bureaucrats"</b> effectively named Sudan a rogue state when its diplomats were linked to that year's bombing of the New York World Trade Center building.<br /><br />In 1995, this body slapped sanctions against Sudan for its complicity in the failed assassination of Egypt's President Mubarak. The USA took unilateral military action against Sudan for its tacit involvement in the 1998 Embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya that killed 224.<br /><br />Thousands have died in ghost houses that are little more than govermnent-owned torture chambers. Their existence is not secret but fact. Former Sudanese leader Hassan al-Turabi, an <b>Islamist guru</b>, personally welcomed the A-list of terrorists to Khartoum - <b>everyone from Hamas and Hezbollah to Egyptian Jihad and the mujahideen of Taliban fame.</b><br /><br />The Sudanese civil war has starved <b>2 million civilians </b>to their graves, has driven<b> 4.5 million from their homes</b>, has slaughtered an additional <b>2 million since 1984</b>, and<b> 155,000 in the past few months alone.</b><br /><br />More than<b> one million children</b> call themselves kid soldiers in the civil war and and estimated<b> 200,000 black Africans, especially Dinka tribesmen,</b> have been sold into slavery. All this in a small slice of a nation of just <b>37 million.</b> Sudan's government is not one for dialogue, integrity, decency, or humanity. So Darfur is the final straw.<br /><br />This is a civil war prodded by oil. BBC, NBC, CNN, Reuters, etc. all document the <strong>slaughter of Christian blacks</strong> around oil fields. So let's take away the incentive for murder.<br /><br />Let's add an oil embargo to Ambassador Cabrero's resoulution. Some delegations have voiced doubt about condemning the whole nation instead of the murderous Janjaweed. But Sudan's leadership is in fact orchestrating <strong><span style="color:#000000;">the ethnic cleansing of black and Christian Africans</span></strong>.<br /><br />Human Rights Watch, an independent, non-biased independent observer, has determined that, "The government of Sudan is responsible for “ethnic cleansing” and crimes against humanity," and that "Government forces oversaw and directly participated in massacres, summary executions of civilians—including women and children— burnings of towns and villages, and the forcible depopulation of wide swaths of land."<br /><br />The group, after visiting the Darfur region, ascertained that, though outnumbered by Janjaweed warriors, government forces are the first to arrive at a scene of attack and the last to leave.<br /><br />They are guilty of more than complacency. Thay are guilty of complicity in murder. Local sources say that <strong>any Arab with a horse in the region was offered 300,000 Sudanese pounds and a gun by Sudanese Government representatives to join the Janjaweed</strong>.<br /><br />NATO didn't wait for the Hague to convict Milosevic before it protected Kosovo. Why should we wait before we protect the innocents of Darfur?<br /><br />SUDAN IS ACCUSING ISRAEL OF SUPPORTING DARFUR REBELS!! Can you believe such thing? The ethnic cleansing country has the audacity to accuse the only democracy in the Middle East of supporting those who wish to speak and fight against the attrocities they themselves are committing. Sometimes I feel a deep sadness to see how low the human soul has descended!<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://blog.rajanr.com/?itemid=341" target="_blank">http://blog.rajanr.com/?itemid=341</a><br /><br />Talk about anti-semitism...<br />What has Israel got to do with all this??<br />To acknowledge the problem does not mean that we have to believe all Muslims are the same. But we must acknowledge this major issue in order to separate these groups of quiet living Muslims from the fanatic ones who are causing misery to so many people on this planet.<br />If we neglect, deny their attrocities, and try to appease them, nothing will ever be done.<br /><br />Appeasement is like feeding a crocodile, expecting it to eat you last.Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-65089677386370609902010-04-17T14:32:00.001-07:002010-04-17T14:32:48.679-07:00Islam and terrorism<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/WANA.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/WANA.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br />Terrorists try and have a cause so that they have a basis to arouse sympathy and collect money.<br /><br />They often call this 'freedom fighting'.<br /><br />They skim the money collected and spend money also to finance various nefarious activities, unrelated to the 'freedom fighting'.<br /><br />The gun runners, smugglers and the underground mafia support them as direct beneficiaries of money coming to these terrorist organisations.<br />So does the parallel banking system, through which the money is channeled.<br /><br />The financial capital for 'illegal money' flow is London. Most illegal moneys transit/originate here for violence in various parts of the world.<br /><br />A lot of Kashmir terrorsim sponsorship comes from London, as much as Pakistan.<br /><br />The Srilankan LTTE esablished a wide network for regularly drawing money from all over the world. A lot of their money came from the UK, Canada, USA and Singapore and Malaysia.<br /><br />Dubai and Singapore are other centres through which such money gets channeled, apart from arms.<br /><br />Countries like Switzerland have long had the policy of being a haven to hoard unaccounted and stolen money from various countries used for various illegal activities including terrorism.<br /><br />To suffocate terrorism, choke off the money and the arms flow.<br />Terrorism also flourishes 'cos other countries harbor terrorists giving them safe refuge till things cool down.<br />There are several rogue states that do this as an official policy.<br /><br />These terrorists usually cite 'persecution' or imminent execution if extradited.<br />Thus these countries against capital punishment, refuse to extradite such people to countries where they may be executed.<br /><br />Look at someone like Arafat. Even in childhood he played “general”, having other children march before him. He was a military flunkie in the Egyptian army (it’s not even known that he saw any action), but he would – as an adult – pretend to be a “general”. Who can forget his interview with Ted Koppel on Nightline a few years back? Asked a pointed question, Arafat threw a tantrum lecturing Koppel that he was talking to “General Yasser Arafat”. (Note further that whereas Arafat compared himself to General George Washington, he never made the transition to compare himself to President Washington.)<br /><br />Consider that in Gaza the price of an M-16 could feed about 5,000 children. What does it tell us about groups like Hamas that they prefer to kill a few Jews (primarily innocent civilians), even martyr themselves, than to feed their children?<br /><br /><b>Technology transforming the Arab world - cf. Assad</b><br />Ultimately, it's a war of ideas, not bombs. Assad seems to be the first Arab "leader" (aka evil overlord) who finally gets it. Too late.<br /><br /><a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/06/assad.syria/index.html" target="_blank">edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/06/assad.syria/index.html</a><br /><br />What this REALLY means is that when people have the possibility of getting information from multiple sources, in the long run, they'll choose what makes really sense. They will reject collectivism and government monopoly.<br /><br />For now, they see that people in the west live damn much better than they do and that they don't really need a dictator or "strong government" to tell them how to live.<br />There is nothing more terrifying for rulers and ideologies than the free flow of information.<br /><br />Great, we may yet see a free and prosperous Arab world within our lifetime. One that does not need external conflict to repress internal unrest.<br /><br /><b>Racism in Mauritanian Islam</b><br /> Causes of Slavery<br />Slavery has been a part of Mauritanian society for centuries. 800 years ago, Arab and Berber tribes descended from the Mediterranean peninsula and launched slave raids against the indigenous African population, abducting women and children as slaves. Those enslaved were converted to Islam and raised to believe that their religious duty was to serve their masters faithfully. <span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Slaves were taught that because of their impure dark skin they were forbidden from touching the Koran, praying in the mosque, and attending school.</span> The saying "paradise under your master's foot" embodied the notion that the path to salvation was through loyal servitude.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.iabolish.com/today/background/mauritania.htm" target="_blank">http://www.iabolish.com/today/background/mauritania.htm</a><br /><b>Slaves in Embassies</b><br />While Christianity was once used in a similar manner to justify slavery to Africans ensnared by the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Mauritania's system persists today in the 21st century. Moors still hold "haratine" slaves, descendants of those abducted centuries ago.<br /><br />Slaves are bought and sold, branded and bred, and even given to the poor as an act of charity. <span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Some are trafficked to Gulf states or even serve in embassies around the world.</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 132);">Black slavery is simply an integral part of Mauritanian society,</span> with slaves performing all sorts of physical labor. Mauritania has theoretically outlawed slavery three times, most recently with a military edict in 1980. But local Islamic courts rarely enforce anti-slavery statutes, and there is no evidence of widespread emancipation.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.iabolish.com/today/background/mauritania.htm" target="_blank">http://www.iabolish.com/today/background/mauritania.htm</a><br /><br /><b>Modern day slavery</b><br /> Common characteristics distinguish slavery from other human rights violations. A slave is:<br /><br />•forced to work -- through mental or physical threat;<br /><br />•owned or controlled by an 'employer', usually through mental or physical abuse or threatened abuse;<br /><br />•dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as 'property';<br /><br />•physically constrained or has restrictions placed on his/her freedom of movement.<br /><br />I want to bring special attention to this:<br /><br />Early and forced marriage affects women and girls who are married without choice and are forced into lives of servitude often accompanied by physical violence.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/antislavery/modern.htm" target="_blank">http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/antislavery/modern.htm</a><br /><br /> What types of slavery exist today?<br /><br />Bonded labour affects at least 20 million* people around the world. People become bonded labourers by taking or being tricked into taking a loan for as little as the cost of medicine for a sick child. To repay the debt, many are forced to work long hours, seven days a week, up to 365 days a year. They receive basic food and shelter as 'payment' for their work, but may never pay off the loan, which can be passed down for generations.<br /><br />Early and forced marriage affects women and girls who are married without choice and are forced into lives of servitude often accompanied by physical violence.<br />Forced labour affects people who are illegally recruited by individuals, governments or political parties and forced to work -- usually under threat of violence or other penalties.<br /><br />Slavery by descent is where people are either born into a slave class or are from a 'group' that society views as suited to being used as slave labour.<br />Trafficking involves the transport and/or trade of people -- women, children and men -- from one area to another for the purpose of forcing them into slavery conditions.<br /><br />Worst forms of child labour affects an estimated 179 million** children around the world in work that is harmful to their health and welfare.<br /><br />Isn’t this the fate of too many women and children? Sold as slaves in Islamic countries? As prostitute in the West and in Asia? As labour in Africa?<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Iraq and Muslim killings</span><br /><br /><b>They kill muslims, you know.</b><br /> The majority of those killed in Iraq are muslims. The majority of the killing is done by the so-called "insurgents".<br /><br />They kill muslims, you know.<br /><br />They kill hundreds, thousands, now perhaps tens of thousands of muslims. They blow up holy mosques of greater antiquity and perhaps cultural value than Notre Dame or the Haga Sophia.<br /><br />They set bombs in markets, to kill women and their following children as they shop for their daily bread.<br /><br />They kill muslims, you know.<br /><br />They kill Iraqi patriots. They enter the homes of Iraqi policemen and national guardsmen and kidnap them/ violate thier women. There are dozens of videos of Iraqis being beheaded by these barbarians here <a href="http://www.ogrish.com/index2.html" target="_blank">http://www.ogrish.com/index2.html</a>.<br /><br />If more muslims would watch these videos maybe they would stop supporting the terrorists. The terrorists kill nearly indescriminately. One of the videos, the man spoke to the camera, he was brave and never begged for his life. He told his father and his uncle that he loved them, and explained that he had been taken hostage because he had been seen selling refreshments to the people waiting to enter the American base.<br /><br />The cowards couldn't hope to catch an American soldier, or in this case even an Iraqi one, so they picked up a poor guy off of the street, put a camera in front of his face, then read a long statement about the "fate of those" who help the Americans, followed by the "wrath of allah" and that poor, poor young man having his head sawed off with a knife to shouts of "allahu akbar".<br /><br />Because I can speak and understand Arabic, the video was even more senseless. I can't imagine what these terrorists were trying to accomplish by filming such an act. I don't understand how it could possibly win support for thier cause. It showed them for what they are: Filthy Barbarians.<br /><br />I can't find that one, but here they are killing an Iraqi Patriot[<a href="http://www.ogrish.com/archives/ansar_al_sunnah_captures_iraqi_national_guardsman_Jan_29_2006.html" target="_blank">http://www.ogrish.com/archives/ansar_al_sunnah_captures_iraqi_national_guardsman_Jan_29_2006.html</a>], a fellow muslim.<br /><br />here[<a href="http://www.ogrish.com/archives/zarqawis_group_al_qaeda_in_iraq_beheads_iraqi_national_guard_on_video_Apr_04_2005.html" target="_blank">http://www.ogrish.com/archives/zarqawis_group_al_qaeda_in_iraq_beheads_iraqi_national_guard_on_video_Apr_04_2005.html</a>] they behead another brave Iraqi soldier.<br /><br />here[<a href="http://www.ogrish.com/archives/ansar_al_sunnah_blows_up_election_center_video_Jan_29_2005.html" target="_blank">http://www.ogrish.com/archives/ansar_al_sunnah_blows_up_election_center_video_Jan_29_2005.html</a>] they cheer "allahu akbar" as they blow up people, muslim people, waiting in line to vote and decide their own futures.<br /><br /><i>Quran talks of prisioner of war. It says dont torture women and children of the province u win. And do take proper care of POW.</i><br /><br />If you are to treat prisoners with dignity, then would you say that these executions carried out by the terrorists in Iraq are unislamic?<br /><br /><i><span style="color:#0000ff;">"In pursuance of Mahomet's commands the citizens of Medina and such of the refugees as possessed houses received the prisoners and treated them with much consideration. 'Blessings be on the men of Medina', said one of these prisoners in later days, 'they made us ride while they themselves walked; they gave us wheaten bread to eat when there was little of it, contenting themselves with dates."</span></i> [<a href="http://www.al-islam.org/lifeprophet/14.htm" target="_blank">http://www.al-islam.org/lifeprophet/14.htm</a>]<br /><br />Iraq will be a completely independent state as soon as the government is strong enough to deal with the current problems. The coalition forces are working as hard as they can to create stability so that they can <b>leave</b>. The public here doesn't like our troops being killed for the sake of the citizens of another country.<br /><br />Take a look at the video. These terrorists are murderers. They're killing muslims. They're killing muslims! You will never, ever find any video of coalition forces cutting off the head of a man. That just doesn't happen. It's very sad that it is done by these animals, and you need to realize that the terrorists are animals. They kill your brother muslims because they're too weak and cowardly to capture any Americans.<br /><br /><span style="color:#0000ff;">Male captives might be killed or enslaved, whatever their religious affiliation. (People of the Book were not protected by Islamic law until they had accepted dhimma.) Captives might also be <b>given the choice between Islam and death, or they might pronounce the confession of faith of their own accord to avoid execution:</b> jurists ruled that their change of status was to be accepted even though they had only converted out of fear. Women and children captured in the course of the campaigns were usually enslaved, again regardless of their faith. Nor should the importance of captives be underestimated. Muslim warriors routinely took large numbers of them. Leaving aside those who converted to avoid execution, some were ransomed and the rest enslaved, usually for domestic use. (Patricia Crone. God’s Rule: Government and Islam. New York: Columbia University Press, 2004, pp. 371-72)</span><br /><br /><br />These terrorists are breaking the faith. They are violating islam. They are executing muslims.Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7128267138804978773.post-66559312842365280912010-04-17T14:31:00.001-07:002010-04-17T14:31:59.270-07:00Fanakistan & Moderovia<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/1600/mountain.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6970/1974/320/mountain.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Fanakistan </span>is a country which exists in virtual reality. It is a diversified country but most members have espoused one or more of the following:<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Arch-conservative or reactionary views shrouded in leftist rhetoric</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Promotion of hatred, bigotry, violence, intolerance, gay-slander and hatred, anti-feminism, against women’s right</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Try to silence any criticism of the most fundamentalist interpretation of Islam and promotion of women’s right, gay-rights, children’s rights, human rights</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Racism mostly directed against Jews, Whites and Indians.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Lack of religious tolerance and hatred towards different faiths; most notably Hinduism and Judaism</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-anti-Semitism</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Putrid hatred of Israel and wishing for the annihilation of the State of Israel</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Hatred of America</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Lack of human decency</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Bullying of moderate members of the IR forum</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Verbal slander and common vulgarity</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Sympathy for Islamic terrorists called; “freedom fighters”</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Promotion of hate sites</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Nazi rhetoric</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-…and the list goes on, but I think the general description of Fanatikistan has been conveyed.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Democracy is an evil Western idea.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">-Human rights…what is that?</span><br /><br /><b>Landscape and capital of Fanakistan<br /><br /></b>Landscape: Don’t know since I’m watching it from the land of Moderovia and Fanakistan is always clouded by ignorance and hatred. I know for sure there exist the Mountain of Hate and the River of intolerance and lake of Death. There is also a wast source of mud which the inhabitance use for aminition catapulting it into Moderovia.<br /><br />Capital: Bin. I have been told that the streets run with blood from beheadings. Heads, hands and arms cover the streets. Screams of women can be heard everywhere from houses but also from public squares where their mutilated heads stick up from the ground after stoning. Guards roam the street chanting religious verses while they beat women passing by and pick up women thrown out of their houses by their men for “adultery”. Children are not save from those guards.<br /><br />There are no universities, ignorance is an virtue and people are not encouraged to think. In some parts TV is allowed in others not but the programs are all the same, message of hate, anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism. Terrorism acts and films of victims is also popular.<br /><br />Amongst the regions of this most desolate and ignorant place are: Terroristan, Antiisman, Talibanistan, Extremikistan, Ignoristan, and last but not least Saudi-Arabiakistan which is actually the spiritual home of the Wahabiism which is so inspiring to so many members of the country.<br /><br /><b>People, society and norms</b><br />For some reason many members call themselves Muslims and consider Islam their faith hmmmmm but one moment, hold on; isn’t Islam the religion of love, charity, and culture so in essence they can’t be Muslims. In some cases the none-Muslims are even more fanatical than the people calling themselves Muslims<br /><br />One would think that the members would be fighting amongst themselves since in many ways they are so diversified: Marxists, Liberal-leftists, and Muslims at a various stage of fundamentalist extremism. But instead of fighting they have united in a common cause: HATRED. This is the glue that holds the country of Fanatikistan together. Why else would fundamentalists be associating with heathens, unveiled women, socialists? Everybody gives in a little…although some more than others. The leftists give up the most.<br /><br />They have to virtually accept reactionary politics directed against women and give up on the idea of human rights. Well not entirely. Human rights is all good when protecting the rights of the likes of Bin Laden, but not really valid when fighting against stoning of children or women or promoting human rights in Islamic countries. In that case the promotion of universal human rights becomes “ethnocentric” and “Islamphophia”<br /><br />In the country of Fanatikistan. Women are dirty and men are not allowed to shake hands with them, not even when foreign dignitaries are involved.<br /><br />The youth is taught that western women are whores and that’s why its alright to rape them and molest.<br /><br />Martyrdom is the greatest thing with 72 virgin promised if you kill enough children and women. Oddly enough the killing of Shiite women and children falls under this category.<br /><br />It is a male dominated society where the men aren’t used to women speaking so they react harshly when they do, with personal vulgarity and filth on such a scale it is hard to distinguish between ass and mouth.<br /><br /><b style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Moderovia: Country, people, values</b><br />Bordering the Fundamentalist state of Fanikistan is the country of Moderovia<br />In Moderovia the following are the guidelines:<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Religious tolerance and freedom where moderation and respect runs deep in the conscience of the people</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-The liberal believe and state and religion are separate issues and faith is something that is on a personal level between people’s gods and themselves.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Universal human rights</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Keen interest in other people’s culture and faith and the believe that we seem different we are all the same just celebrating and sharing our difference.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Rule of law</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Discrimination based on gender, race, faith or sexuality is forbidden and punishable by law</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-The promotion of hate is forbidden</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Women are not the property of men but independent individuals which are not subject to slander for being who they are or dressing the way they like</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-The justice system doesn’t execute, disfigure, whip, behead, stone or amputate people</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Gays are not subject to abuse and death but respected</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Children are not stoned but regarded as the most valued persons in the whole state to be protected at all cost but not filled with hatred of others or told to become suicide bombers.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Values of democracy</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">-Respect for property</span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Who are the members of this society?</span><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">People with various political views but believe in basic human rights and democracy.</span><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Moderate religious people be it Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc.</span><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Non-religious people</span><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Lovers of human rights and diversity</span><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">People who consider themselves agnostic, or atheists</span><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Democrats</span>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0